Alternativa Forum

Liječenje mantrama

Ovo je diskusija na temu Liječenje mantrama u podforumu Ayurvedska Medicina
Citat: Originally Posted by Rasa Vilasini iJer ti verujes da su ...

Natrag   Alternativa Forum > Alternativna medicina > Ayurvedska Medicina

Alternativa Forum


Ayurvedska Medicina Najstarija medicina na svijetu!

Odgovor
LinkBack Opcije Teme Način Prikaza
Nepročitano 26-01-10, 19:30   #51
Ash
Guru
 
Ash's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Dec 2009
Postovi: 990
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Rasa Vilasini Pogledaj Post
iJer ti verujes da su itihase i Purane vedske?
Što ti podrazumijevaš pod vedskim spisima? Za mene su vedski spisi oni koji su dio veda. Mnogi kasniji spisi se podudaraju sa onime što piše u vedama, samo su ponekad malo drugačije interpretirani.

Citat:
Originally Posted by Rasa Vilasini Pogledaj Post
A koje ti prevode imas i odakle su ti?Ko ih je preveo?Nemoj zaboraviti moje pitanje na pocetku.
A zasto smatras da je vaisnavski zakljucak sektaski?
Bilo koji prevod od strane osobe koja nije u sklopu vaišnavske sektaške filozofije identično će prevesti vedske spise... Ima ih na stotine i tisuće, izaberi bilo koga... On (pojedine vaišnavske struje) se jedini razlikuje od prvotnih vedskih spisa, u smislu da uzdiže krišnu kao vrhovno božanstvo i zastupa dvaita filozofiju, što vede zasigurno nisu...

Citat:
Originally Posted by Rasa Vilasini Pogledaj Post
Ako se to nekome ne svidja i ima drugi zakljucak ne znaci da je nas zakljucak sektaski.Zakljucak moze biti jedino ispravan ili neispravan,nikako sektaski.
Meni se općenito sviđa taj religijski kolorit hinduizma, toga nema nigdje drugdje. Zato mi je drag Za mene sekta znači određenu grupaciju ljudi sa vjerovanjem koje nije u skladu sa izvornim informacijama na temelju koje je nastala. Ne vidim u tome ništa loše niti negativno. Dapače, smatram da se ljudi trebaju razvijati i mogu, jedino kroz vlastito tumačenje svijeta oko sebe.
Ash je offline   Reply With Quote
Ash, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
Luna (27-01-10)

Nepročitano 26-01-10, 21:01   #52
New member
 
zvjezdana's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 93
zvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the roughzvjezdana is a jewel in the rough
Zadani

Nego da se mi vratimo na originalni-prvi post...Dragi Ash- da nije tebe,a i ovog forumane znam kad bi se srela sa ovom divnom mantrom-koju si naveo na početku.Uglavnom,jedva sam je zapamtila,(al jesam!) al počela sam je chantati 108 puta -već peti dan...Probat ću 40 dana ,al za sad moram reć da mi se prvo vrtilo u glavi-ali doslovno,jako-sam kad je izgovaram naglas-što ne radim dok se vozim u vlaku ili tramvajua onoak usput -doslovno donosi mir...mantre su moćne i divne.Još jednom
zvjezdana je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 27-01-10, 04:52   #53
alternativa addict
 
Krishna Balaram's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2009
Lokacija: gde me um nosi
Postovi: 2,058
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Ash Pogledaj Post
Što ti podrazumijevaš pod vedskim spisima? Za mene su vedski spisi oni koji su dio veda. Mnogi kasniji spisi se podudaraju sa onime što piše u vedama, samo su ponekad malo drugačije interpretirani.
NA koje kasnije spise ti mislis?I dali ih ti smatras verodostojnim. Ja pod vedskim spisima podrazumevam 5 veda Yajur,Atharva,Rig i Sama V kao i Itihase i Purane koje se racunaju petom Vedom.Prve cetiri Vede su se manifestirale jedna po jedna iz cetiri glave Brahme a Itihase i Puane su se manifestirale iz usta svih cetiri glava otkako ga je Svevisnji Gosodin nadahnuo i dao znanje Brahmi u srcu kao sto to kaze prvi stih Vedanta Sutre a i na mnogo drugim mestima.




Citat:
Originally Posted by Ash Pogledaj Post
Bilo koji prevod od strane osobe koja nije u sklopu vaišnavske sektaške filozofije identično će prevesti vedske spise... Ima ih na stotine i tisuće, izaberi bilo koga... On (pojedine vaišnavske struje) se jedini razlikuje od prvotnih vedskih spisa, u smislu da uzdiže krišnu kao vrhovno božanstvo i zastupa dvaita filozofiju, što vede zasigurno nisu...
Kazi mi nekoliko od njih pa da odaberem.Ne znam uopce na koga mislis.To uopce nije tacno ,Znanje i zakljucak vaisnava je potpuno u skladu sa vedskim zakljuccima.Trebala bih za to dugo pisati ali sad zaista nemam vremena.To znanje se prenosi sa kolena na koleno ali sa ucitelja na ucenika ne porodicno koleno i zove se disciplic succesion .Tako su se i te Vede koje ti opisujes ( a ja smatram da je vaisnavsko znanje isto deo veda)prenosile .A o dvaita filozofiji drugi put .nemam vremena

Citat:
Originally Posted by Ash Pogledaj Post
Meni se općenito sviđa taj religijski kolorit hinduizma, toga nema nigdje drugdje. Zato mi je drag Za mene sekta znači određenu grupaciju ljudi sa vjerovanjem koje nije u skladu sa izvornim informacijama na temelju koje je nastala. Ne vidim u tome ništa loše niti negativno. Dapače, smatram da se ljudi trebaju razvijati i mogu, jedino kroz vlastito tumačenje svijeta oko sebe.
Onda po tvojoj definiciji mi vaisnave nismo sekta.Otkud tebi to misljenje da mi nismo u skladu sa Vedama?
A ja ne mislim uopce ( ako sam te dobro razumela) da se ljudi trebaju razvijati i mogu, jedino kroz vlastito tumačenje svijeta oko sebe.Vlastito tumacenje sveta ja bih rekla da je spekulacija i opasno .Ne bih htela da idem kod hirurga koji ne prihvata ucenja svoje skole i ima svoje tumacenje i misljenje kako napraviti operaciju.A sta da se kaze kad neko spekulise o zivotu.Upravo taj stav vodi sektasenju po onoj tvojoj definiciji tako se nikad nece sacuvati ni znanje ni istina.Taj kolorit sto kazes je takav jer radi catering za svakoga,za svaku dusu i njene zelje Ali ne znaci da ce se sve dobro i da ispunjenje zelja je krajnja dobrobit za dusu. .
Krishna Balaram je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 27-01-10, 14:42   #54
New member
 
lleerrkkaa's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Sep 2009
Postovi: 8
lleerrkkaa is on distinguished roadlleerrkkaa is on distinguished road
Zadani

ovake ljude zaobiđite, od njih niste ništa naučili, samo rasipaju ego, a htjelo se nešto naučiti.ovo je kao kad netko nauči tri definicije iz matematike pa prosipa pamet prvašičima, ljudi su htjeli nešto lagano da zavole mantranje i to je prava stvar, akoliko znaju.....sumljam......misle da nitko nije pametan da ih procijeni.
I još jedna, lako je pričati o krasnom i nadasve poštovanom Praupadu, pa da imate pojma o pojmu, onda bi znali da postoji knjiga o njegovim zadnjim danima.Sve živo se učinilo da mu se pomogne, neko reče jotiš,pa ne znate, to kod bahta slabo radi, jer se bahtama molitvom jotiš mjenja.Za Njega od specijalnih kristala, masaža, doktora, kuhinja, sve je učinjeno i to je za mene ljubav, a i mantralo se...mislim da niste ekipa na nivou za razgovor
lleerrkkaa je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 28-01-10, 14:08   #55
alternativa addict
 
Krishna Balaram's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2009
Lokacija: gde me um nosi
Postovi: 2,058
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by lleerrkkaa Pogledaj Post
.
I još jedna, lako je pričati o krasnom i nadasve poštovanom Praupadu, pa da imate pojma o pojmu, onda bi znali da postoji knjiga o njegovim zadnjim danima.Sve živo se učinilo da mu se pomogne, neko reče jotiš,pa ne znate, to kod bahta slabo radi, jer se bahtama molitvom jotiš mjenja.Za Njega od specijalnih kristala, masaža, doktora, kuhinja, sve je učinjeno i to je za mene ljubav, a i mantralo se...mislim da niste ekipa na nivou za razgovor
Draga ileerrkkaa Svako mora napustiti planet nekako,a to sto se radilo sa S. PRabhupadom samo pokazuje da mi ne zapostavljamo svoje tijelo i koristimo sve moguca sredstva.Nije da cu ici pesice ako mogu kolima.Jeste menja se Jyotish kod bhakta ako uspeju promeniti mentalitet koji uzrokuje probleme u jyotishu,Jyotish je jednostavno mapa tvog puta po ovom svetu i tvog mentaliteta.Srila Prabhupad Nije bio vezan ostati ovde ,to su zeleli njegovi ucenici.A to sto se on stradao to je i zato sto kad neko prihvati ucenike ako onda oni ne slede pravila i propise onda on dobije reakcije.Jel,sta bi ti rekla za ISusa Hrista koji je bio razapet na krstu?Jyotis ,nije konsultirao jyotish?ili samo se prepravljao da je Bozji sluga jer ga Bog nije uspeo zastititi?Znas moramo videti vecu sliku
Krishna Balaram je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 05-05-10, 09:24   #56
Ash
Guru
 
Ash's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Dec 2009
Postovi: 990
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by zvjezdana Pogledaj Post
.Uglavnom,jedva sam je zapamtila,(al jesam!) al počela sam je chantati 108 puta -već peti dan...Probat ću 40 dana ,al za sad moram reć da mi se prvo vrtilo u glavi-ali doslovno,jako-sam kad je izgovaram naglas-što ne radim dok se vozim u vlaku ili tramvajua onoak usput -doslovno donosi mir...mantre su moćne i divne.Još jednom
Ti odmah krenula sa 108 puta :) Super je što mantraš na glas, tako se radi na početku korištenja mantri. To što ti se vrti u glavi je znak da se energetski mjenjaš. Baš mi je drago što si krenula sa mantra sadanom, ja sam se ulijenio po tom pitanju. Možda me tvoj primjer potakne da se primim posla :)
Ash je offline   Reply With Quote
Ash, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
Spring (05-05-10)
Nepročitano 05-05-10, 09:48   #57
Ash
Guru
 
Ash's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Dec 2009
Postovi: 990
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Rasa Vilasini Pogledaj Post
To uopce nije tacno ,Znanje i zakljucak vaisnava je potpuno u skladu sa vedskim zakljuccima.
Kako je vaišnavska filozofija u skladu sa vedama kada zastupa dvaita filozofiju? Za razliku od veda koje zastupaju advaita filozofiju? No, na kraju je po meni najbitnije da se čovjek razvija i da bude djelatan u ovom životu. Tako sakuplja iskustva i napreduje kao biće manifestirajući se kroz svoju karmu
Ash je offline   Reply With Quote
Ash, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
Krishna Balaram (06-05-10)
Nepročitano 06-05-10, 03:31   #58
alternativa addict
 
Krishna Balaram's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2009
Lokacija: gde me um nosi
Postovi: 2,058
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Ash Pogledaj Post
Kako je vaišnavska filozofija u skladu sa vedama kada zastupa dvaita filozofiju? Za razliku od veda koje zastupaju advaita filozofiju? No, na kraju je po meni najbitnije da se čovjek razvija i da bude djelatan u ovom životu. Tako sakuplja iskustva i napreduje kao biće manifestirajući se kroz svoju karmu
Znas ash tako je lijepo pricati sa tobom.
Evo jedan od odgovora
Srila Prabhupad je odgovorio na pitanje reportera
April 20
Çréla Prabhupäda was recalling the press conference. One newspaper reported that he had said that Bhagavad-gétä contains all answers to all problems—social, political and otherwise—and should not be misinterpreted. He smiled when he heard that and said, "They have captured the main points of my talk." As for dvaita/advaita, he said, "Krishna never says we are all one. If a servant says, 'Yes, I am the same as the master,' that is his impudence. But the master never says it. Krishña says to Arjuna, 'Many births you and I have had, but you are not the same as Me. You forget; I do not. Therefore you should surrender to Me.' Where is the question of advaita if Krishna says 'Surrender to Me’? Our philosophy is both advaita and dvaita. We are one with Krishña in our qualities, but He is much greater than us."
“Actually, on account of His acintya-çakti, the Supreme Lord is simultaneously and eternally both personal and impersonal. If only His impersonal aspect is acknowledged, His supreme status and absolute completeness is diminished. The Vedas have described the Supreme Absolute Truth as the prime doer, His actions having three aspects: apadäna, the source and supplier, that is the ablative case—from whom; käraëa, the cause and instrument, that is the instrumental case—by whom; and adhikaraëa, the mainstay and support, that is the locative case—in whom.
“In the Taittiréya Upaniñad, 3.1.1, Åñi Bhågu says in the first chapter:
yato vä imäni bhütäni jäyante;
yena jätäni jévanti;
yat prayanty abhisaàviçanti;
tad vijijïäsasva; tad brahmeti
“‘Bhågu, the son of Varuëa, approached his father and said, “Lord, kindly instruct me in Brahman.” Varuëa replied, “The one who is the source of all the jévas, the one who maintains them, and the one into whom all the jévas enter at the time of total annihilation, is the subject of your question. He is Brahman.’
“The purport of this verse is that the words ‘the source of all living entities’ describe the Lord as apadäna. As ‘the maintainer and sustainer’ He is käraëa, and as ‘the One into whom all jévas enter’ He is adhikaraëa. The Supreme Absolute Truth has been specified by these three symptoms of personality, hence He is always Çré Bhagavän.
From Jaiva Dharma Written By Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “I am always ready to help you. You can, of course, also ask questions about the topics we have already covered.”
Vrajanätha, “Under what name are Çré Caitanya’s teachings known? There are already famous teachings, for example: advaita, monism; dvaita, dualism; çuddhädvaita, purified monism; viçiñöädvaita, specific monism; and dvaitädvaita, monism and dualism combined, which are philosophies propagated by the previous äcäryas. Did Çré Gauräìga endorse any of these philosophies, or did He teach something entirely new? You have mentioned earlier that Çré Caitanya is in the Brahma-sampradäya, the disciplic line of Lord Brahmä. Does this mean that Çré Caitanya is an äcärya in the line of Çré Madhväcärya’s dvaita philosophy, or are His teachings of a different line?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “Listen to the eighth verse of the Daça-müla-çikñä:
hareù çakteù sarvaà cid-acid-akhilaà syät pariëatir
vivartaà no satyaà çruti-mata-viruddhaà kali-malam
harer bhedäbhedau çruti-vihita-tattvaà suvimalaà
tataù premëaù siddhir bhavati nitya-viñaye
“‘In their entirety, the material and spiritual worlds are the transformations of the energies of Çré Kåñëa. Vivarta-väda, the impersonal theory of illusory transformation of Brahman, is false. It is a noxious pollution of Kali-yuga and contradictory to the conclusions of the Vedas. The philosophy of acintya-bhedäbheda tattva, inconceivable, simultaneous oneness and difference, is the true pure essence of the Vedic Truth. The practice of this philosophy elevates a person to the perfection of developing divine transcendental love for the Eternal Absolute Truth, Çré Kåñëa.’
“The teachings of the Upaniñads are known as Vedänta. Çréla Vedavyäsa, desiring to properly articulate these meanings of the Upaniñads, summarised them systematically according to topics, resulting in a treatise with four chapters called the Brahma-sütra, also famous as the Vedänta-sütra. This compendium of the crystallized teachings of the Vedas has always evoked spontaneous appreciation in the scholarly circles. All the äcäryas from the different philosophical schools have borrowed ideas from the Vedänta-sütra to authenticate their individual views.
“Çré Çaìkaräcärya has attempted to establish vivarta-väda, the Theory of Illusory Transformation of Brahman, from these sütras. He taught that if parinäma-väda, the Transformation of Brahman, were applied to Brahman, as an explanation for the creation, then Brahman would lose its own supreme unchangeable identity. Çré Çaìkaräcärya, therefore, proposed that vivarta-väda, the Theory of Illusory Transformation of Brahman, was the superior philosophical conclusion. This theory of vivarta-väda is also known as mäyäväda, the Theory of the Illusory Nature of Creation. Attempting to establish his philosophical proposal, Çré Çaìkaräcärya took verses from the Vedas out of context and at his convenience to support his views. Through his doctrine, Çré Çaìkaräcärya attempted to defeat the theory of parinäma-väda, the Transformation of Brahman, which evidently existed prior to his appearance.
“Vivarta-väda is only one of many theories proposing to define reality and dissatisfied with this new ideology of mäyäväda, Çré Madhväcärya formulated dvaita-väda, the philosophy of duality. He also scrutinized the Vedas, collecting verses in support of dvaita-väda. After him came Çré Rämänujäcärya, who also by using the Vedas and Vedänta-sütra, presented the philosophy of viçiñöädvaita-väda, qualified non-dualism. Next in line was Çré Nimbärkäcärya, who dived deeply into the same scriptures to crystallize the philosophy of dvaitädvaita-väda, simultaneous duality and non-duality. Finally, Çré Viñëusvämé based his philosophy of çuddhädvaita-väda, pure dualism, also on the tenets of the Vedänta-sutra.
“The mäyäväda doctrine preached by Çré Çaìkaräcärya is contrary to the basic tenets of bhakti. In contrast, the four Vaiñëava äcäryas, stalwarts in their particular disciplic successions, presented all their various philosophies anchored in the truth of devotional surrender to Bhagavän. Later, Çré Caitanya, holding the complete teachings of the Vedas in the highest esteem, synthesized the essence of the entire Vedas in His instructions. The philosophy of Çré Caitanya is renowned as acintya-bhedäbheda-tattva, inconceivable, simultaneous oneness and difference. Çré Caitanya is in the disciplic line of Çré Madhväcärya, but only the condensed essence of the views of Çré Madhväcärya has been collected by Çré Caitanya.”
Vrajanätha, “What is the meaning of parinäma-väda?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “Parinäma-väda may be divided into two concepts: brahma-parinäma-väda, the transformation of Brahman; and tat-çakti-parinäma-väda, the transformation of the energies of Brahman.
“According to the adherents of brahma-pariëäma-väda, the inconceivable, impersonal Brahman transforms itself, on the one hand, into the living entities and, on the other, into the material universe. They site the Chändogya Upaniñad, 6.2.1, which declares:
…ekam evädvitéyam...
“‘That, Brahman, is one and unsurpassable.’
“From this Vedic statement, they conclude that Brahman is the only known entity. Hence, this theory may be called advaita-väda, monistic impersonalism. In this context, vivarta and parinäma are synonyms indicating illusory—or otherwise—transformation of the impersonal Brahman.
“The second group, tat-çakti-parinäma-väda, states that tat, Brahman, does not accept transformation, but that the acintya-çakti of Brahman is transformed partly into the jéva-çakti, which manifests the jévas, and partly into the mäyä-çakti, which manifests the material universe. If this view is acknowledged, then Brahman Himself does not become transformed. Thus, Sadänanda writes in his commentary, Vedänta-sära, 59:
...satattvato’nyathä buddhir vikära ity udérataù...
“‘If the source is the Absolute, then anything generated out of the Absolute is also an entity partaking of the absolute nature; but the intelligence identifies the generated entity as distinct from its origin. This is known as vikära, transformation.’
“What is vikära? It is a separate, distinct identity manifesting from the Absolute, the Source. Yoghurt, produced from milk, retains some similarity with milk. However, the intelligence designates yoghurt with a separate identity from milk—this is vikära. Therefore, the view of brahma-parinäma-väda that this material universe and the jévas are transformations of Brahman and yet still non-different from Brahman—without separate identities from Brahman—is very distorted and lacking in intelligence. Furthermore, if according to the adherents to this school of thought, the impersonal Brahman is the One Singular Entity without qualities and distinction, whereby is the possibility of transformation of such a quality-less entity—illusory or otherwise? Further, if it is accepted that such a quality-less Brahman is transformable, then Brahman is robbed of the absolute and detached status. Hence, the theory of brahma-parinäma-väda is very inaccurate.
“However, the çakti-parinäma-väda theory does not suffer from these logical deficiencies. Here, Brahman is certainly detached, independent and immutable. However, in this understanding, the unlimitedly powerful acintya-çakti of Brahman—capable of making the impossible possible—transforms partly into the jéva-çakti and partly into the illusory mäyä-çakti. When Brahman desired the jévas to be manifest, immediately His transcendental jéva-çakti went into action and produced the innumerable jévas. When Brahman wanted the material world to come into existence, immediately His mäyä-çakti, the shadow form of His para-çakti, went into action constructing the material cosmos. However, in all these activities, Brahman in Himself eternally remains unaffected and without transformation.
“For the sake of argument one may say that for Brahman to desire is in itself a transformation of Brahman, therefore how may such a transformation exist in an immutable Brahman? This mistaken argument is based upon the observation of the action of desire within the jéva, which should not be applied to Brahman. The desire of the jéva brings the jéva into contact with a further energy of Brahman, which in turn then affects the infinitesimal jéva and thus his desire. Hence, the desire of the jéva is vikära, mutable, by the effect of contact with the powerful energies of Brahman. This is not the case with Brahman, whose incorruptible and supremely independent desire springs unrestrainedly from His intrinsic nature. Although His desire is non-different from His çakti, it is simultaneously also distinct from His çakti. Therefore, in conclusion, the absolutely independent desire and will of Brahman is His inherent, inseparable nature, and externally imposed mutability and transformation are alien to His constitution.
“The conclusion is that the acintya-çakti of Brahman in obedience to His orders becomes active and is transformed. The limited intelligence of the jéva cannot discover unaided this subtle and esoteric truth, which can be realized only through hearing the testimony of the Vedas.
“The nature of the transformation of Brahman’s çakti should now be considered. The example of milk turning into yoghurt is not the only example of the capability of çakti to transform. In addition, mundane analogies are inadequate to properly and accurately describe transcendental theories, though specific aspects of mundane examples are useful in revealing the transcendental truth.
“The Caitanya Caritämåta, Ädi 7.123-127, describes that a touchstone gem, known as the cintämaëi, transforms metals and stones into gold and gems respectively, without itself being transformed in any way. This example can be applied to the Supreme Lord and the process of creation of the material universe. The Supreme Lord creates the unlimited material cosmos, complete with the fourteen planetary systems and the innumerable jévas within, simply by His desire, which activates His acintya-çakti. Yet, He Himself remains vikära-çünya, unaffected, untransformed and complete regardless of all these activities. Therefore, the term vikära-çünya need not be limited only to a postulated impersonal Brahman. Rather, the term may be correctly applied the Unlimited Absolute Person, Brahman, who has supreme lordship and a purely spiritual form eternally and unlimitedly imbued with the six transcendental opulences. The word ‘Brahman’ means båhat, the greatest. Therefore, the word ‘Brahman’ directly refers to the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead, Çré Bhagavän. To define the Supreme Brahman as only impersonal and thus deprive Him of His acintya-çakti is clearly contradictory.
“Actually, on account of His acintya-çakti, the Supreme Lord is simultaneously and eternally both personal and impersonal. If only His impersonal aspect is acknowledged, His supreme status and absolute completeness is diminished. The Vedas have described the Supreme Absolute Truth as the prime doer, His actions having three aspects: apadäna, the source and supplier, that is the ablative case—from whom; käraëa, the cause and instrument, that is the instrumental case—by whom; and adhikaraëa, the mainstay and support, that is the locative case—in whom.
“In the Taittiréya Upaniñad, 3.1.1, Åñi Bhågu says in the first chapter:
yato vä imäni bhütäni jäyante;
yena jätäni jévanti;
yat prayanty abhisaàviçanti;
tad vijijïäsasva; tad brahmeti
“‘Bhågu, the son of Varuëa, approached his father and said, “Lord, kindly instruct me in Brahman.” Varuëa replied, “The one who is the source of all the jévas, the one who maintains them, and the one into whom all the jévas enter at the time of total annihilation, is the subject of your question. He is Brahman.’
“The purport of this verse is that the words ‘the source of all living entities’ describe the Lord as apadäna. As ‘the maintainer and sustainer’ He is käraëa, and as ‘the One into whom all jévas enter’ He is adhikaraëa. The Supreme Absolute Truth has been specified by these three symptoms of personality, hence He is always Çré Bhagavän. While analysing the characteristic traits of the Supreme Being, Çréla Jéva Gosvämé writes in his treatise the Bhägavata Sandarbha:
ekam eva tat parama-tattvaà sväbhävikäcintya-çaktyä
sarvadaiva svarüpa-tad-rüpa-vaibhava-jéva-pradhäna-rüpeëa
caturdhävatiñöhate süryäntarmaëòalastha-teja iva
maëòala tad-bahir-gataraçmi-tat-prattichavi-rüpeëa.
durghaöa-ghaöa-katvaà hyacintyatvam
“‘The parama-tattva, the Supreme Absolute Truth, is one. He controls inconceivable potencies intrinsic to His nature. These potencies manifest His svarüpa, personal form; His tadrüpa vaibhäva, immediate opulent expansions; the jévas, the living entities; and the pradhäna, the sum total of material ingredients. An appropriate parallel to explain these four aspects of the Absolute Truth is their correspondence with following four: the inner core of the sun planet, the surface of the sun planet itself, the rays emanating from the sun planet, and the light of the sun planet reflected from another surface far away.’
“His svarüpa is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. His transcendental name, abode, associates and paraphernalia are tadrüpa-vaibhäva. The jévas, both the unlimited conditioned souls and the eternally liberated souls, are His infinitesimal spiritual sparks. His illusory energy, mäyä, and the gross and subtle material elements created by mäyä are known as the pradhäna. These four manifestations are eternal and so is the oneness of the Supreme Absolute Truth. A pertinent question at this juncture would be, ‘How can the two apparently conflicting eternal paradigms of personality and impersonality simultaneously coexist?’ The reply, ‘It is impossible for the human intellect to accept this proposition, because the intellect is limited, but within the paradigm of the acintya-çakti of the Supreme Lord such apparent contradictions are easily harmonised.’”
Vrajanätha, “Kindly define vivarta-väda.”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “In the Vedas, there is a description of vivarta, bewilderment, however that description is not at all similar to that proposition of the monistic impersonalists, which has become known as vivarta-väda. Çré Çaìkaräcärya’s distorted interpretation of the word vivarta unceremoniously herds the reader into the mäyäväda enclosure, where vivarta-väda and mäyäväda become synonymous. The actual scientific and etymological explanation of the word vivarta is found in the commentary of the sage Sadänanda, known as the Vedänta-sära, wherein verse 49 we find:
atattvato ’nyathä-buddhir vivarta ity udähåtaù
“‘To mistakenly perceive any object—which is contrary to and different from the actual real object—to be the real object, is called vivarta.’
“The jéva, a minute spiritual particle of the Supreme Absolute Being, is imprisoned in the tabernacle of his physical body and because of ignorance about his real identity falsely identifies himself with his gross and subtle bodies. He considers them his real self. This misunderstanding and false conclusion is called vivarta. This explanation is in line with the Vedic understanding.
“For example, a person may think, ‘I am Raghunätha Bhaööäcärya, the son of Sanätana Bhaööäcärya, who has many titles and possessions.’ Another may think, ‘I am Sädhu Caëòäla, the son of Vijaya Caëòäla.’ However, both are seriously mistaken. They are actually individual jévas, tiny particles of spirit, but because they identify with their temporary material bodies, they are deluded and deceived. Similarly, a rope may be mistaken for a snake and a glistening oyster-shell may be mistaken for silver. However, both vivartas are caused by optical illusions. Therefore, the Vedas, by referring to many mundane analogies such as the above, abound with instructions to expel the illusion of the soul’s false material identity, which is vivarta, a false perception, mistaking one thing for another.
“However, the mäyävädé philosophers have ignored the Vedic definition of vivarta and have misconstrued the actual Vedic meaning to their own peculiar notion. They say the truth is, ‘I am Brahman,’ and its perverted perception is, ‘I am the jéva.’ This bewildered misidentification, they postulate, is called vivarta. This false definition of the actual Vedic understanding creates a smoke screen around the Truth. The correct understanding of vivarta-väda corresponds with the çakti-pariëäma-väda, the transformation of energy concept, whereas the mäyävädé presentation of vivarta-väda is ludicrous and dispersed into many versions, three of which are prominent: (1) in a deluded state Brahman thinks He is jéva, and thus the jévas are created; (2) the jévas are the bewildered reflections of Brahman; (3) Brahman is only dreaming that He has created the jévas and this inferior material universe. All such misinterpretations are distortions of the Vedic version.”
Vrajanätha, “Master, I am unable to fully grasp this philosophy of mäyäväda?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “Calmly consider what I say, the mäyä-çakti is merely the shadow representation of the absolute cit-çakti of the Lord, and so the spiritual abodes, where Her entry is not allowed, are outside Her jurisdiction. The control of Mäyädevé extends only to the extremities of this material universe. The jéva has entered this prison-like material world under nescience and delusion. The supreme transcendental entity, Çré Bhagavän, enjoys absolute freedom and is in full independent command of His multifarious çaktis. These truths are not completely accepted by the mäyävädé philosophers.
“The mäyävädés claim that the jéva is actually Brahman, but because of the bewildering influence of mäyä they have separate identities. And as long as the jéva keeps contact with mäyä, he remains a jéva, but when he dissociates from mäyä, he immediately regains his Brahman status and identity. Unfortunately, the jéva does not exist without mäyä, being the creation of mäyä’s effect upon Brahman; therefore, the jéva’s only conceivable liberation is to merge into the existence of Brahman, thus losing his illusory identity. In this way, the mäyävädés withhold the original, eternal, spiritual and individual identity from the jéva, putting him into a pigeonhole of illusion with a fictitious role.
“Another concocted claim of the mäyävädés concerns the Supreme Lord. As He is transcendental to material nature, He must allow Himself to come under the influence of the mäyä-çakti and accept an illusory material form upon descending to the material world as an incarnation, otherwise He cannot enter the phenomenal world. While present upon this earth, the incarnations perform superhuman tasks and when it is time for them to return to the spiritual platform they give up their material forms, thus leaving this world. Brahman is formless, but to become an incarnation Brahman must enter a material form composed of mäyä.
“However, in spite of these speculations by the mäyävädés, in one aspect they have at least condescended and magnanimously allowed the Supreme Lord a position superior to the jéva. The jéva is forced to accept a material body as a result of karmic reactions even against his will, and as a result of the unfolding karmic reactions he must accept old age, death and birth. The Supreme Lord, they say, is not in such a compromised position; voluntarily He accepts an illusory form, restrictions, a name and qualities, etc. If He wishes to discard all these material things, at will He instantly regains the platform of pure goodness and is transformed into the embodiment of unadulterated spiritual consciousness. He performs activities, but never comes under the constraints of karmic reactions. These are some of the philosophical aberrations propagated by the various mäyävädé schools.”
Vrajanätha, “Are any of these mäyävädé teachings found in the Vedas?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “The answer is emphatically negative. Nowhere do the Vedas uphold the mäyävädé precepts. In a sense, mäyäväda philosophy is the same as Buddhism. The Padma Puräëa, Uttara-khaëòa, 43.6, states:
mäyävädam asac chästraà
pracchannaà bauddham ucyate
mayaiva kalpitaà devi
kalau brähmaëa-rüpiëä
“‘Replying to the question of Umä Devé, Lord Çiva said, “O Devé, mäyävädé philosophy is extremely materialistic and warped. The nihilistic views of Buddhism have surreptitiously been disguised in the Vedic jargon and have entered the arena of civilized Aryan dharma. This is the mäyävädé philosophy, which I must propagate in Kali-yuga, having taken birth in a brähmaëa family.’”
Vrajanätha, “Master! Lord Çiva, the chief of the devas, is a stalwart Vaiñëava devotee, why did he undertake such a terrible mission?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “Lord Çiva is the guëa-avatära, qualitative incarnation, of Çré Bhagavän. In order to fulfil their sinister motives, the asuras, demoniac forces, had decided to take up the path of bhakti and self-interestedly worship the Supreme Lord to gain great fruitive results and conquer over the devoted devatas. The compassionate Lord, who always protects His surrendered devotees, became concerned with this new trend in the asuras and set about to defend the purity of the institution of bhakti. He called for Lord Çiva and said, ‘Dear Çambhu, it will not be beneficial if the precepts of çuddha-bhakti are preached to the envious rascal asuras, who are steeped determinably in tamasic nescience. In order to delude these asuras, you must create a distorted commentary on the Vedas and present impersonalist mäyävädé teachings. In this way, I will be concealed from the asuras, who will be inveigled away from the path of bhakti and made to follow impersonalism, thus leaving My favoured devotees undisturbed in their relishment of çuddha-bhakti.’
“Lord Çiva, a very dedicated Vaiñëava devotee, at first expressed his sadness about being burdened with such an onerous responsibility, but, surrendered servant as he is, he unquestioningly took up the mission and executed the orders of His Lord. How could Lord Çiva be blamed for this? He did not commit any mistake by following the instructions of His Supreme Lord, for the entire creation is subject to the management of Çré Bhagavän. The Lord wields His Sudarçana-cakra for the protection of all His created jévas. He alone knows the ultimate benefit for the jévas hidden within His instructions. The only duty of His surrendered devotees is to simply carry out His orders. For this reason, the pure Vaiñëava saints never condemn Çré Çaìkaräcärya, the incarnation of Lord Çiva who preached the mäyäväda philosophy.
“Take note of the following evidences from the scriptures, Padma Puräëa, Uttara-khaëòa, 42. 109-110:
‘tvam ärädhya yathä çambho
geahiñyämi varaà sadä
dväparädau yuge bhütvä
kalayä mänuñädiñu
svägamaiù kalpitais tvaà tu
janän madvimukhän kuru
maà ca gopaya yena syät
såñöir eñottarottarä
“‘Çré Viñëu said, “O Çambhu, although I am the Supreme Lord, I have worshiped the different devas and devés simply to mislead the asuras. In the same manner, I shall worship you to obtain boons from you. You should descend to earth in your partial expansion and take birth as a human being in Kali-yuga. Concoct a school of thought by misconstruing the Vedas and divert the mind of the people away from Me. Make sure that these fictitious literatures veil My true spiritual and supreme identity, and—enticing the atheistic gross materialists—rapidly spread atheism amongst them.’
“Further, in the Varäha Puräëa:
eña mohaà såjämyäsu
yo janän mohayiñyati
tväà ca rudra mahäbäho
moha çäñträné käraya
atatkyäni vitakhyäni
darçayasva mahäbhuja
prakäçaà kuru cätmanam
aprakäçaà ca mäm kuru
“‘O Çiva! I am about to create such an illusion that the entire humanity will become confounded. Prepare the fabrication of fictitious literature that will present the truth as unreal and the unreal as truth. Manifest your terrible image of the Destroyer and conceal My eternal transcendental form from the vision of the people.’”
Vrajanätha, “Are there scriptural evidences repudiating the mäyäväda school of thought?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “The entire Vedic scriptures present strong proofs denouncing mäyäväda philosophy. After scouring the Vedas, the torchbearers of the mäyäväda school have come up with just four seemingly substantive statements, which they have inventively labelled as mahä-väkya, great dictums:
“Firstly, in the Chändogya Upaniñad, 3.14.1:
sarvaà khalv idaà brahma
“‘The phenomenal world is an external manifestation of Brahman and is non-different from Him.’
“And also in the Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 4.4.19, and the Kaöha Upaniñad, 2.1.11:
neha nänästi kiïcana
“‘Brahman is free from any material distinctions.’
“Secondly, in the Aitareya Upaniñad, 1.5.3:
prajïänaà brahmä
“‘Prajïä, pure knowledge, is transcendental and is of the same spiritual substance as Brahman.’
“Thirdly, in the Chändogya Upaniñad, 6.8.7:
tat tvam asi çvetaketo
“‘O Çvetaketo, you are that, Brahman.’
“Fourthly, in the Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 1.4.10:
ahaà brahmäsmi
“‘I, the jéva soul, am of the same nature as Brahman.’
“According to the first mahä-väkya, this material world and the jévas are all Brahman—nothing exists outside Brahman. The nature of Brahman has been described in the Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 6.8, as follows:
na tasya käryaà karaëaà ca vidyate
na tat-samaç cäbhyadhikaç ca dåçyate
paräsya çaktir vividhaiva çrüyate
sväbhäviké jïäna-bala-kriyä ca
“‘The Supreme Lord never requires the assistance of material senses to accomplish His works because He neither possesses a material body, nor material senses. His body is completely spiritual. Therefore, His physical presence is not limited like a material body—He is simultaneously present everywhere with His beautiful spiritual form. He is in Våndävana, His beauty blossoming in fresh youthfulness, dallying in eternal pastimes, and, at the same moment, He is fully present throughout His creation. Nothing or no one is equal to or greater than He is, because He is full of acintya-çakti. His potency is defined as acintya because the human intellect is unable to fathom Her position. Parä-çakti, His supreme absolute potency, is another designation for His acintya-çakti. Although this acintya-çakti is one, She is nevertheless manifest in manifold magnificence, known as jïäna, cognition; bala, power; and kriyä, activity.’
“Brahman and His energies are one, as substantiated in this verse. Here çakti is described as sväbhäviké, an effortless and inherent part of the Supreme Lord, though it is also vividha, variegated. Since, çaktimän, the possessor of potency, i.e. Brahman, and çakti, the potency of Brahman, are defined as non-different, this certainly implies that everything is one with Brahman. However, when we exclusively examine the material world, Brahman and His çakti apparently have two separate identities, and thus variety becomes prominent. Therefore, the Kaöhopaniñad, 2.13, and Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 6.10, comment:
nityo nityänäà cetanaç cetanänäm
eko bahünäà yo vidadhäti kämän
“‘The Supreme Lord is eternal and the other living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the other living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.’
“This verse of the çruti, the Vedas, confirms the eternal diversity of Brahman and His numerous eternal expansions.
“Now let us examine the second so-called mahä-väkya statement of the çruti, Aitareya Upaniñad, 1.5.3:
…prajïänaà brahman…
“‘Prajïä, pure knowledge, is transcendental and is of the same spiritual substance as Brahman.’
“This verse equates the prajïänaà with Brahman, however the çruti, Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 4.4.21, clarifies by defining prajïänaà as prema-bhakti, as noted in this verse:
tam eva dhéro vijïäya prajïäà kurvéta brähmaëaù
“‘An intelligent equipoised person who has realized Brahman must endeavour to know the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, and surrender unto Him with loving devotion.’
“Now the third mahä-väkya of the Chändogya Upaniñad, 6.8.7:
...tat tvam asi çvetaketo…
“‘O Çvetaketo, you are that.’
“This statement teaches that Brahman is equal with çakti. The Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 3.8.10, elaborates upon this subject:
yo vä etad akñaraà gärgy aviditväsmäl lokät praiti sa kåpaëaù
ya etad akñaraà gärgi viditväsmäl lokät praiti sa brähmaëaù
“‘The twice-born brähmaëa who after receiving the sacred thread does not immerse himself into the study of the Vedas, but busies himself with less important texts and subject matters, will very soon in this life-time along with his family acquire the lowly qualities of a çüdra.’
“A person who realizes the actual truth of tat tvam asi ultimately attains devotional service to the Supreme Lord and becomes a true practising brähmaëa.
“Now the fourth mahä väkya of the Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 1.4.10:
…aham brahmäsmi…
“‘I, the jéva soul, am of the same nature as Brahman.’
“The knowledge displayed in this text if misused and not dovetailed to seek out the Supreme Lord and surrender unto Him is severely castigated in the Éçopaniñad, verse 12:
andhaà tamaù praviçanti
ye ’sambhütim upäsate
tato bhüya iva te tamo
ya u sambhütyäà ratäù
“‘Those who are engaged in the culture of nescient activities shall enter into the darkest region of ignorance. Worst still are those, who are engaged in the so-called culture of knowledge, mäyäväda.’
“The purport is that a person who is ignorant of his spiritual identity as a result of engrossment in nescient material activities and sensual pursuits is cast into the darkness of ignorance. However, others, even after having dissipated such nescience, who do not realize that the soul is the servitor part and parcel of the Supreme Transcendence and thus foolishly consider themselves as Brahman, the Supreme, are hurled down to an even worse and darker hell.
“The Vedas are immensely voluminous. Their exact essence can only be extracted by scrutinizing every single çloka from each of the Upaniñads, Puräëas, and so on. Isolated and out-of-context statements cannot present a clear picture, but rather distort the real meaning. Ultimately, therefore, Çré Caitanya tooth-combed the entire Vedic literature and formulated His most sublime transcendental teachings, presenting the most elevated philosophy of acintya-bhedäbheda, that the jéva and matter are simultaneously one with and distinct from the Supreme Lord, Çré Hari.”
Vrajanätha, “Master, kindly substantiate how this philosophy of acintya-bhedäbheda is properly rooted in the Vedas.”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “First of all, here is a collection of çlokas from the Vedas describing the abheda, inherent similarity, between the Supreme Lord and His çakti, in the Chändogya Upaniñad, 3.14.1:
sarvaà khalv idaà brahma
“‘Everything, both matter and spirit, is non-different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the Supreme Brahman.’
“Further, the Chändogya Upaniñad, 7.25.2:
ätmaivedaà sarvam iti
“‘This entire cosmic phenomenon is ätmä, the Supreme Soul.’
“Further, the Chändogya Upaniñad, 6.2.1:
sad eva saumyedam agra äséd ekam evädvitéyam
“‘Uddalaka said to his son Çvetaketu, “Before this phenomenal universe came into existence, only the one non-dual Eternal Being was present.’
“Further, the Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 5.4:
evaà sa devo bhagavän vareëyo yoni-svabhävän adhitiñöhaty ekaù
“‘The sun dispels darkness and lightens up all the far directions whilst situated in one place. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, although He is the cause of all causes, remains unaffected and untransformed, therefore He is the object of all worship and devotion.’
“Next is a compilation of çlokas from the scriptures delineating the characteristic distinction between Éçvara and His çakti:
“In the Taittiréya Upaniñad, 2.1:
auà brahma-vid äpnoti param
“‘He who is learned in the knowledge of Brahman attains the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead.’
“In the Kathä Upaniñad, 1.222:
mahäntaà vibhum ätmänaà matvä dhéro na çocati
“‘The learned paëòitas—knowing that the ätmä resides in different living entities and is not limited by time and space, but is great and all-pervasive—are not overcome by lamentation.’
“In the Taittiréya Upaniñad, 2.1.2:
satyaà jïänam anantaà brahma
yo veda nihitaà guhäyäà parame vyoman
so ’çnute sarvän kämän saha brahmaëä vipaçciteti
“‘The Supreme Absolute Brahman is the embodiment of eternity and spirituality and He is transcendental to the purview of material time, place and senses. One, who has realized the truth that the Supreme Brahman is simultaneously situated in the spiritual sky and in the heart of the jéva, is sublimely connected with the Supersoul in a loving relationship, which fulfils all the spiritual desires of the jéva.’
“In the Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 3.9:
yasmät paraà näparam asti kiïcid
yasmän nänéyo na jyäyo sti kiïcit
våkña iva stabdho divi tiñöhaty ekas
tenedaà pürëaà puruñeëa sarvam
“‘There is nothing or no one superior to Him. He is smaller than the smallest and greater than the greatest. He always remains fixed in His status like a towering tree. He is present in the resplendent abode of transcendence, and simultaneously He resides in the inner sanctorum of this universe, as the Paramätmä, by His inconceivable potency.’
“In the Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 6.16:
pradhäna-kñetrajïa-patir guëeçaù
“‘He is the controller of mäyä, the regent of the universe, the Lord of the material modes, and is beyond their influence...’
“In the Kathä Upaniñad, 2.23:
tasyaiña ätmä vivåëute tanuà sväm
“‘The Supreme Lord is attained only by one whom He Himself chooses. To such a person He manifests His own form.’
“In the Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 3.19:
tam ähur ägryaà puruñaà mahantam
“‘Learned transcendentalists explain that the Supreme Lord is the greatest, the Original Person.’
“In the Éçopaniñad, verse 8:
yäthätathyato ’rthän vyadadhäc chäçvatébhyaù samäbhyaù
“‘He (who) has fulfilled the desires of everybody since time immemorial by dint of His acintya-çakti.’
“In the Kena Upaniñad, 3.6:
naitad açakaà vijïätuà yad etad yakñam iti
“‘Agni Deva said, “I could not realize just who this great personality is.’
“In the Taittiréya Upaniñad, 2.7:
asad vä idam agra' asset
tato vai sadä 'jäyata
tad ätmänaà svayam 'akuruta
tasmät tat sukåtam ucya'ta iti
“‘Before this universe came into existence, only Brahman was present in His unmanifest form. The universe was created and became manifest from the unmanifest Brahman—by transformation of the external energy of Brahman. This Supreme Brahman exhibits Himself as the Supreme Person and His personal form is known as sukåti.’
“In the Kathä Upaniñad, 2.13, and Svetäçvatara Upaniñad, 6.13:
…nityo nityänäm…
“‘He, the Supreme Brahman, is the fundamental eternal being amongst all eternal beings.’
“In the Muëòaka Upaniñad, mantra 2:
sarvaà hy etad brahmäyam ätmä brahma so’ yam ätmä catuñpät
“‘All this is inferior Brahman substance, emanating from the energy of Brahman. The Supreme Brahman is none other than Çré Kåñëa, the Personality of Godhead and the Universal Soul. And although He is one, He expands Himself by His inconceivable energy as four Personalities, all embodying rasa, divine spiritual mellow.’
“In the Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 2.5.14:
ayam ätmä sarveñäà bhütänäm madhu
“‘The Supersoul is indeed the perennial source of the sublime nectar of immortality.’
“In this way, the rich, fathomless mine of Vedic literature contains innumerable quotations supporting the bheda principle, the principle of eternal difference. Every part of the Vedas is totally perfect—no single portion can be discarded as non-essential. The eternal ‘oneness’ is as much a timeless and eternal principle as the inherent ‘duality’. These two eternal principles coexist simultaneously and are unequivocally upheld in the scriptures—even though this principle of simultaneous oneness and difference is materially inconceivable and therefore outside the range of the human mental faculty. Any extended debate about this subject would certainly fall into a bottomless pit, leading to confusion and uncertainty. Whatever is stated in the Vedas is the Absolute Truth. As human intelligence is limited, we should not whimsically reject the conclusions of the Vedas. Hence, the Vedic scriptures warn us in the Kathä Upaniñad, 1.2.9:
naiña tarkeëa matir apaneyä
“‘O Naciketa! Now that you have attained the transcendental consciousness of Self-knowledge do not squander it through dry empirical debates.’
“In the Kena Upaniñad, 2.2:
nähaà manye suvedeti no na vedeti veda ca
“‘I do not claim to know Brahman fully, nor is it true that I do not know Him at all. Those of us, who have realized Brahman, know Him in truth.’
“These verses clearly indicate that the energies of the Supreme Lord are inconceivable and cannot be approached through logic and speculative theorization. The Mahäbhärata instructs:
puräëaà manavo dharmaù
saìgo vedaç cikitsitam
ajïa-siddhäni catväri
na hantavyäni hetubhiù
“‘The sattvika-vaiñëava-puräëas, the religious laws of Manu, the six schools of Vedic philosophy, and the entire literature and medical science of the Vedas are the four perfected subjects directly spoken by the Supreme Lord. In an attempt to distort their clear and primary purport no one must challenge or debate upon these topics.’
“Therefore the acintya-bhedäbheda principle is perfect and flawless and unconditionally supported in the Vedas. As the jéva searches for the prayojana, the ultimate perfection and prime necessity of human existence, the acintya-bhedäbheda principle stands firm as the only actual philosophy of the Absolute Truth in the highest realms of human aspiration.
“When the jéva has acknowledged and understood this paramount principle he will doubtlessly realize that dualism presents an eternal aspect in the relationship between Çré Kåñëa and His çaktis. Without this realization, the jéva cannot attain the prayojana of human existence, which is kåñëa-prema.”
Vrajanätha, “What is the concrete proof that prema is the prime human necessity?”
Raghunätha däsa Bäbäjé, “The Vedas declare in the Muëòaka Upaniñad, 3.1.4:
präëo hy eña sarva-bhütair vibhäti
vijänan vidvän bhavate näti-vädé
ätma-kréòa ätma-ratiù kriyävän
eña brahma-vidäà variñöhaù
“‘He who is the Supreme amongst all living entities and is present in every being is realized as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the learned sages through the science of loving devotional service. Such sages become liberated in this life and are fully engaged in glorifying the wonderful qualities of the Supreme Lord, knowing all other topics to be inferior. These sages pass their time engrossed in loving devotional exchanges with the Lord and are constantly relishing the amorous pastimes of the Lord. Such sages are the most exalted amongst all Brahman-realized souls.’
“In the Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad, 2.4.5, the sage Yäjïavalkya instructs his wife, Maitreyi:
na vä are sarvasya kämäya sarvaà priyaà bhavaty
ätmanas tu kämäya sarvaà priyaà bhavati
“‘Yäjïavalkya said, “Maitreyi, no one endeavours to love or be loved for the sake of another’s happiness, but one tries to love and be loved for fulfilling one’s own wish for happiness.’
“This verse of the Båhad-äraëyaka Upaniñad explains that to love and be loved is the prime need and goal of the individual soul.
“Love for the Supreme Lord is described in many passages of the Vedas and the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. The Taittiréya Upaniñad, 2.7, plainly states that prema is the prime human necessity, above all other contingencies:
raso vai saù
ko hy evänyät kaù präëyät
yad eña äkäça änando na syät
eña hy evänandayäti
“‘Çré Kåñëa is the embodiment of all-ecstatic bliss and the reservoir of all pleasure. Having derived ecstasy from Him, the individual souls become blissful. For, who indeed could breathe, who indeed could be alive, if this blissful Lord were not present within the heart of all souls. It is He alone who bestows ecstasy.’
Krishna Balaram je offline   Reply With Quote
Krishna Balaram, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
nagual (07-05-10)
Nepročitano 06-05-10, 09:47   #59
Ash
Guru
 
Ash's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Dec 2009
Postovi: 990
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Ash has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond reputeAsh has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Rasa Vilasini Pogledaj Post
Znas ash tako je lijepo pricati sa tobom.


"Our philosophy is both advaita and dvaita. We are one with Krishña in our qualities, but He is much greater than us."
I meni je lijepo pričati sa tobom Kada sam vidio ovoliko teksta zagrcnula mi se kava u grlu

Htio bih samo izdvojiti ovaj jedan citat. Kako je moguće biti u isto vrijeme dio nećega i odvojen? Ili pretpostavljati boga iznad sebe i tvrditi da je to advaita (stapanje sa bogom). Advaita filozofija zastupa tezu da se mi stapamo sa bogom i da nismo odvojeni od njega. Mi smo on, a on je mi. Nema odnosa ja sam ispod on je iznad...

Dvaita automatski pobija advaitu... Vede naučavaju da ne postoji razlika između boga i nas. Nego da smo mi bog... To možemo osjetiti pri dubokoj meditaciji ili samadiju. Mi gubimo našu osobnost i nismo svjesni sebe. Mi smo stopljeni sa prauzrokom... Ne postoji dualnost u niti jednom obliku...

Isto kao što kap oceana kada ju odvojimo od oceana postaje jedinka za sebe, sa svojom osobnošću, tako i mi ljudi nismo svjesni da smo dio nećeg večeg (boga). To se dešava radi našeg neznanja. Ali kada se stopimo sa njime mi gubimo tu individualnu osobnost i postajmo On... Nestaju sve dualnosti (dvaita).

Dvaita je samo percepcija nas ljudi koji nismo dostigli realizaciju naše istnske prirode i bojimo se gubitka svoje osobnosti. Mi tada mislimo da smo mi i bog odvojeni realiteti. No, kada postignemo stapanje sa Njime kroz meditaciju mi uviđamo da ne postojimo On i mi kao odvojeni realiteti. Tada iskustveno spoznajemo da smo mi i On jedno.
Ash je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 06-05-10, 13:44   #60
alternativa addict
 
Krishna Balaram's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2009
Lokacija: gde me um nosi
Postovi: 2,058
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Krishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond reputeKrishna Balaram has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Ash Pogledaj Post
I meni je lijepo pričati sa tobom Kada sam vidio ovoliko teksta zagrcnula mi se kava u grlu

Htio bih samo izdvojiti ovaj jedan citat. Kako je moguće biti u isto vrijeme dio nećega i odvojen? Ili pretpostavljati boga iznad sebe i tvrditi da je to advaita (stapanje sa bogom). Advaita filozofija zastupa tezu da se mi stapamo sa bogom i da nismo odvojeni od njega. Mi smo on, a on je mi. Nema odnosa ja sam ispod on je iznad...

Dvaita automatski pobija advaitu... Vede naučavaju da ne postoji razlika između boga i nas. Nego da smo mi bog... To možemo osjetiti pri dubokoj meditaciji ili samadiju. Mi gubimo našu osobnost i nismo svjesni sebe. Mi smo stopljeni sa prauzrokom... Ne postoji dualnost u niti jednom obliku...

Isto kao što kap oceana kada ju odvojimo od oceana postaje jedinka za sebe, sa svojom osobnošću, tako i mi ljudi nismo svjesni da smo dio nećeg večeg (boga). To se dešava radi našeg neznanja. Ali kada se stopimo sa njime mi gubimo tu individualnu osobnost i postajmo On... Nestaju sve dualnosti (dvaita).

Dvaita je samo percepcija nas ljudi koji nismo dostigli realizaciju naše istnske prirode i bojimo se gubitka svoje osobnosti. Mi tada mislimo da smo mi i bog odvojeni realiteti. No, kada postignemo stapanje sa Njime kroz meditaciju mi uviđamo da ne postojimo On i mi kao odvojeni realiteti. Tada iskustveno spoznajemo da smo mi i On jedno.
E bas si simpatican.Smesno mi bilo ovo sa kafom .
Nisam imala vremena da skratim.
Ja se licno ne brinem toliko o filozofiji vise(shvatila sam da znanje moze otvrdnuti srce,bar jeste moje pa sad se koncentriram na ljubav ,na pravu ljubav ne ovozemaljsku) ali da se vratim .Mi smo istovremeno jednaki sa Bogom po kvalitetu kao sto je recimo zlatna nausnica zlato kao i ceo rudnik zlata ali kolicina nije ista.Ne mozemo reci da zato sto je nausnica mala nije zlato a ipak ne mozemo reci da mala kolicina zlata ista kao kod rudnika.
Mi I Bog smo oduvijek odvojeni ali i oduvijek nerazdvojni.Kao djelici Njegovi mi smo daklem zauvjek nerazdvojivi jer ne postoji nesto izvan postojanje Boga.Bog je sve sto postoji ali zato sto smo djelici i to svjesni djelici mi smo i razliciti od Njega .Kao sto kap u okeanu nikad nece postati okean .Oduvijek ce biti kap.
Stapanje u dvaita filozofiji je kao zelena ptica sleti na zeleno drvo ,i drvo i ptica oduvijek postoje.
Bog sam kaze da On nikad ne potpada pod iluziju .Ima nekoliko dokaza citiranih iz Upanisada tamo na mojem super kilometarskim postom.Nisam bas imala vremena ispraviti font da bude citljivije.
Jesi li citao Bhagavad gitu?
Dali prihvatas purane kao saplement veda?
Ako da onda ti odatle dati dati isto dokaze.
vec sam ti dala neke dokaze iz Veda na onom prethodnom postu
Krishna Balaram je offline   Reply With Quote
Odgovor

Opcije Teme
Način Prikaza

Pravila Pisanja Postova
Vi ne možete otvoriti novu temu
Vi ne možete odgovarati na postove
Vi ne možete pridružiti datoteku
Vi ne možete editirati Vaše postove

BB kod je On
Smajlići su On
[IMG] kod je On
HTML kod je Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Vremenska Zona je GMT +1. Trenutno je 21:31 sati.





Iz ponude izdvajamo:











Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0