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Citat: Originally Posted by frust Ustvari, odricanje od askeze (koju neko ...

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Nepročitano 23-04-13, 13:14   #21
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Citat:
Originally Posted by frust Pogledaj Post
Ustvari, odricanje od askeze (koju neko voli) je čist mazohizam.
A miša mu! Jel ovo tema o askezi ili mazohizmu?


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Nepročitano 23-04-13, 13:18   #22
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Relax Pogledaj Post
Recimo da se ja sad dobrovoljno odreknem nečega, i početna neugodnost preraste u zadovoljstvo - kaj sad? tražim novi nivo odricanja?

To bi bio čist hedonizam.


Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
A miša mu! Jel ovo tema o askezi ili mazohizmu?

Pojmovi koji se dodiruju se i prelivaju jedan u drugoga.
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Nepročitano 23-04-13, 13:41   #23
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Citat:
Originally Posted by frust Pogledaj Post
To bi bio čist hedonizam.





Pojmovi koji se dodiruju se i prelivaju jedan u drugoga.
Mislim da bi nam trebala biti važna duhovna dobrobit i razvoj, a sad ne znam koliko je moguća i duhovna dobrobit u maltretiranju tijela i pretjeranom odricanju


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Nepročitano 23-04-13, 14:26   #24
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Asketizam je i nastao radi duhovne dobrobiti. Najbolji je srednji put. Asketizam to ti je samodisciplina ,ne pretjerivati u jelu,piću spavanju, seksu ,pričanju,u stjecanju bogatstva ,nego skromno. Znači ne zanemarivati tjelo ali i ne previše se koncentrirati na njegove potrebe. Posvetiti se i duhovnom- molitvi, meditaciji,preispitivanju sebe u želji da se mjenjamo na bolje ,da živimo vrlinski...

Kad bolje promislimo to uopće nije loše a i dobro je za zdravlje.
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Nepročitano 23-04-13, 14:55   #25
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Cvjet Pogledaj Post
Asketizam je i nastao radi duhovne dobrobiti. Najbolji je srednji put. Asketizam to ti je samodisciplina ,ne pretjerivati u jelu,piću spavanju, seksu ,pričanju,u stjecanju bogatstva ,nego skromno. Znači ne zanemarivati tjelo ali i ne previše se koncentrirati na njegove potrebe. Posvetiti se i duhovnom- molitvi, meditaciji,preispitivanju sebe u želji da se mjenjamo na bolje ,da živimo vrlinski...

Kad bolje promislimo to uopće nije loše a i dobro je za zdravlje.
Jel taj srednji put dobar kao i srednji prst?


...ako tvoj brod ne pristaje u luci ti doplivaj do njega...



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Nepročitano 23-04-13, 14:56   #26
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Citat:
Originally Posted by egzorcist Pogledaj Post
Jel taj srednji put dobar kao i srednji prst?
Tsss, ma još bolji!


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Nepročitano 24-04-13, 06:05   #27
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Ti čitaš samo ono što tebi odgovara da održiš iluziju svoje teorije mazohizma.

Ja samo kažem da si se uhvatila jedne riječi koja sama po sebi ništa ne znači - to je samo riječ koja može postaviti neki okvir ali ona sama po sebi ne definira askezu. Odricanje kao pojam ne sadrži ovaj nastavak koji si mu prišila: cit.: "...od nečega što ti je gušt". Ti si tu riječ dodatno emocionalno obojala i to svojim bojama.

Odricanje je naprosto odricanje. Točka. Tvoja je pretpostavka (uvjerenje) da se teškom mukom odričeš onoga što ti je gušt. A da ti je to veći gušt od duhovnosti i puta i cilja, onda se ne bi odrekao i ne bi išao putem askeze nego bi ostao u svojim guštima. Jel sad razumiješ na što želim ukazati? Polaziš od sebe i zato ti je koncept stran i/ili nepojmljiv.

A koja je to moja teorija mazohizma?

Ne slažem se da je asketizam odbacivanje nečega što ti više ne paše, jer si to nadrasla.

Riječ koje sam se uhvatila je odricanje, a ona je bitan dio definicije asketizma (opet ponavljam, ako je izbacuješ, više ne pričaš o asketizmu). Vidim asketizam samo kao alat.
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Nepročitano 24-04-13, 09:06   #28
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Citat:
Originally Posted by lucy Pogledaj Post
A koja je to moja teorija mazohizma?
Pa rekla si da je po tebi asketizam mazohizam.

Citat:
Originally Posted by lucy Pogledaj Post
Ne slažem se da je asketizam odbacivanje nečega što ti više ne paše, jer si to nadrasla.

Riječ koje sam se uhvatila je odricanje, a ona je bitan dio definicije asketizma (opet ponavljam, ako je izbacuješ, više ne pričaš o asketizmu). Vidim asketizam samo kao alat.
A ja ti opet ponavljam da je odbacivanje emocionalno neutralna riječ (poput svih ostalih), bez konotacija - ti si je obojala svojim bojama i dodala joj nastavak: ... onoga što ti je gušt. A to si podsvjesno napravila da bi je ukalupila u svoju teoriju o tome kako je askeza čisti mazohizam.

Odbacivanje je naprosto odbacivanje. Da ti je veći gušt jesti, piti i seksati se, onda ti ne bi bio prioritet askeza.

Tvoje slaganje ili neslaganje s tim nema nikakve veze. Činjenice ostaju činjenice.


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Nepročitano 24-04-13, 09:17   #29
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Pa rekla si da je po tebi asketizam mazohizam.



A ja ti opet ponavljam da je odbacivanje emocionalno neutralna riječ (poput svih ostalih), bez konotacija - ti si je obojala svojim bojama i dodala joj nastavak: ... onoga što ti je gušt. A to si podsvjesno napravila da bi je ukalupila u svoju teoriju o tome kako je askeza čisti mazohizam.

Odbacivanje je naprosto odbacivanje. Da ti je veći gušt jesti, piti i seksati se, onda ti ne bi bio prioritet askeza.

Tvoje slaganje ili neslaganje s tim nema nikakve veze. Činjenice ostaju činjenice.
Ljube, sori ali fakat lupetaš.

Makni to moje "iz gušta", držiš se za to ko pijan plota.

Asketizam nije način života. Može biti sastavni dio života kao alat u sklopu sistema ili tehnike.

Da, ako netko usvoji odricanje kao način života - to mi liči na mazohizam i ne vidim koje dobrobiti na dugoročno postiže s tim.
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Nepročitano 24-04-13, 09:20   #30
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Pa vidiš, meni je to došlo prirodno, spontano - naprosto nemam potrebe. Ne odričem se. Čak štoviše - morala bih se prisiljavati da živim drugačije i onda bi to spadalo u nasilje.
Vidiš, to ne smatram asketizmom. Nisi se odrekla nečega, ne radiš na samodisciplini ako ti je to došlo spontano.
Odabrala si način života koji ti odgovara, ali te to ne čini asketom.
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