Alternativa Forum

Kako nastaje suosjećaj

Ovo je diskusija na temu Kako nastaje suosjećaj u podforumu Duhovnost
U duhovnjačkim se krugovima ego spominje s neugodnim konotacijama, kao nešto ...

Natrag   Alternativa Forum > Metafizika i duhovnost > Duhovnost

Alternativa Forum


Duhovnost Duhovni put

Odgovor
LinkBack Opcije Teme Način Prikaza
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 09:36   #1
ignis
 
Lusi's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2014
Postovi: 1,437
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani Kako nastaje suosjećaj

U duhovnjačkim se krugovima ego spominje s neugodnim konotacijama, kao nešto što trebamo nadrasti, prerasti, odbaciti, očistiti...
U svakodnevnom životu postoji pridjevi egoistično i egocentrično - oba označavaju ne baš poželjne osobine ljudi koji misle sam na sebe ili čak ostvaruju svoje interese na štetu drugih, bezobzirno.

Ipak, u psihologiji ego kao ego uopće nije tako strašan kao što to sugerira duhovnjački mainstream.
Ego je ekvilajzer super ega i ida i kao takav je zapravo prilično poželjan.

Id bi bio nesvjesni, instiktivni i agresivni dio nas, dok super ego objedinjuje poželjne društvene manire i vrijednosti tipa suosjećaja - ego ih drži u ravnoteži.

Ako je Freud u pravu, id nam je jedini urođeni dio ličnosti, a ego i super ego se izgrađuju iz njega.

Ono što mene zanima je sljedeće:
Ono što nastaje u super egu je reakcija na emociju iz ida - ako idemo dublje dolazimo do toga da primjerice suosjećaj u super egu nastaje kao odgovor na strah od kazne koji se pojavljuje u idu.

Što mislite o tome?
Je li moguće da je jedan od najplemenitijih osjećaja za koje je ljudska vrsta sposobna - osjećaj dubokog razumijevanja tuđe situacije, koji često urodi motivacijom za pomoći, djelovanjem humanosti - je li moguće da je taj osjećaj nastao tek sekundarno? Kao odgovor na strah od kazne koji se primarno pojavio?
Što nam to govori o ljudskoj dobroti
?

Zadnja promjena:
Lusi je offline   Reply With Quote
Hvala na korisnom postu!
imagine (22-05-14), Jesam (19-05-14), LIK (19-05-14)

Nepročitano 19-05-14, 09:49   #2
svjetlo
 
lucero's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Nov 2009
Lokacija: Pri moru
Postovi: 4,471
lucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond repute
lucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond reputelucero has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Čini mi se da se negdje već vodila diskusija o egu, znam da sam pisala tamo. Al bome ne znam više gdje.


"Kuda koracam hoću da bacam
snopove zlatne svjetlosti."



Podijeli post!

lucero je offline   Reply With Quote
lucero, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 09:52   #3
ignis
 
Lusi's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2014
Postovi: 1,437
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Vodila se na više mjesta i često off-topično.

Boldala sam sada gore poantu, ne zanima me rasprava o egu zbog ega kao ega kao što smo do sada raspravljali, pa neću ovu temu spajati s postojećima.
Lusi je offline   Reply With Quote
Lusi, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 10:05   #4
Dandapani
 
Jesam's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2011
Postovi: 13,845
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Najkraće moguće - id je naše 'dijete', ego je naš 'odrasli' a superego naš 'roditelj'. To troje bi trebalo biti u ravnoteži.

Jako dobro to prikazuje Eric Berne (Koju igru igraš, Transakcijska analiza), kao i njihovu međusobnu komunikaciju i korelacije.

Freud je odavno osporen a i danas ga nitko ozbiljan iz struke više ne uzima kao pretjerano relevantnog.

Ego je naravno dobar dok je u ravnoteži, kao uostalom i sve drugo u životu. Pogrešno je shvaćanje u New Age krugovima da ego treba ubiti. Tu su famu proširili oni koji ne razumiju o čemu se uistinu radi. Sve što nam je dano, dano nam je s razlogom.

No, kad ego preuzme vlast nad nama, kad počne divljati na svoju ruku, onda to baš nije zdravo za nas. No, i tu je pitanje za koga nije zdravo. Nije isto da li je osoba prosvjetljena ili nije.

Nitko prosvjetljen ne bi smio imati problema s egom jer je on samo dio naše fizičke manifestacije u ovom životu. Tko želi doprijeti do viših stanja i znanja, mora se osloboditi okova ega koji ga poput sidra vuku natrag u niža stanja.


slobodni.net za slobodni svijet



Podijeli post!


Zadnja promjena:
Jesam je offline   Reply With Quote
Hvala na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14), madagaskar (19-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 10:06   #5
ignis
 
Lusi's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2014
Postovi: 1,437
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Ok Jesam.

A što je sa suosjećajem koji je više reakcija nego izvorni osjećaj?

Edit: izmijenila sam naslov
Lusi je offline   Reply With Quote
Lusi, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 10:11   #6
Dandapani
 
Jesam's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2011
Postovi: 13,845
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Lusi Pogledaj Post
Ok Jesam.

A što je sa suosjećajem koji je više reakcija nego izvorni osjećaj?

Edit: izmijenila sam naslov
Tko to kaže - tko to laže ...

Tkogod je rekao tako nešto, nema očigledno pojma o čemu govori. Takva se definicija može jedino odnositi na psihopatsku ličnost koja emocije uči i kopira umjesto da ih uistinu osjeća i proživljava.

Suosjećanje je dio naše božanske prirode, ono je kodirano u našoj dnk, staničnoj memoriji, univerzalnoj svjesnosti (kako god to nazvali) i dio je bezuvjetne ljubavi. Naravno, kod emocionalno zdravih osoba.


slobodni.net za slobodni svijet



Podijeli post!

Jesam je offline   Reply With Quote
Jesam, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 10:15   #7
ignis
 
Lusi's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2014
Postovi: 1,437
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Tko to kaže - tko to laže ...

Tkogod je rekao tako nešto, nema očigledno pojma o čemu govori. Takva se definicija može jedino odnositi na psihopatsku ličnost koja emocije uči i kopira umjesto da ih uistinu osjeća i proživljava.

Suosjećanje je dio naše božanske prirode, ono je kodirano u našoj dnk, staničnoj memoriji, univerzalnoj svjesnosti (kako god to nazvali) i dio je bezuvjetne ljubavi. Naravno, kod emocionalno zdravih osoba.
Na koje se istraživanje možeš referirati? Tj. tko je rekao to što si napisala?

Tko je rekao da je ljudska priroda božanska i da nam je suosjećaj više urođen nego primjerice egoizam?
Lusi je offline   Reply With Quote
Lusi, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 10:35   #8
Dandapani
 
Jesam's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2011
Postovi: 13,845
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Lusi Pogledaj Post
Na koje se istraživanje možeš referirati? Tj. tko je rekao to što si napisala?
Dio je iz višeg izvora, dio osobne spoznaje.
Nisi navela svoj izvor.

Citat:
Originally Posted by Lusi Pogledaj Post
Tko je rekao da je ljudska priroda božanska i da nam je suosjećaj više urođen nego primjerice egoizam?
Kako kome - s obzirom da je procjena nekih autora (poput Lobaczewskog) da je udio psihopata u stanovništvu oko 40%, onda vjerujem da je egoizam svakako mnogo bliži njihovoj naravi.

Definicijom i pojmom psihopatije bavili su se mnogi autori (no svi se slažu u tome da je osnovna karakteristika psihopate upravo nedostatak suosjećaja, empatije) i nije je teško naći. U svakom slučaju, kad se sagledaju oba pojma u kontekstu, onda je stvar mnogo jasnija.

A ako se radi o naučenom ponašanju kao posljedici straha od kazne, možemo li uopće govoriti o suosjećanju?

Moramo pažljivo koristiti pojmove jer smo ionako ograničeni riječima, još i kad ih pogrešno dodjeljujemo, onda lako dolazi do zabune i konfuzije.


slobodni.net za slobodni svijet



Podijeli post!


Zadnja promjena:
Jesam je offline   Reply With Quote
Jesam, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 11:29   #9
Guru
 
madagaskar's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Sep 2011
Postovi: 555
madagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond repute
madagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond reputemadagaskar has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Suosjećanje je dio naše božanske prirode, ono je kodirano u našoj dnk, staničnoj memoriji, univerzalnoj svjesnosti (kako god to nazvali) i dio je bezuvjetne ljubavi. Naravno, kod emocionalno zdravih osoba.
ne slažem se s ovim.
Dijete koje je odraslo uz jednog ili oba roditelja psihopata i samo će se ponašati na sličan način, kopirat će.
Tek kasnije može naučiti suosjećati, znači može to razviti ali i ne mora.
Isto tako djecu se odmalena može učiti i empatiji.
Naravno da su neka djeca osjetljivija od drugih i da imaju veći potencijal za razviti empatiju, taj potencijal je individualan i različit a sama empatija (suosjećanje) je nešto što se uči i razvija, u prvom redu od obitelji a kasnije kroz interakciju s društvom i okolinom te kroz vlastita iskustva


razbijte sve svoje iluzije kako biste ih mogli zamijeniti novima



Podijeli post!

madagaskar je offline   Reply With Quote
Hvala na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14), LIK (22-05-14), Lusi (19-05-14)
Nepročitano 19-05-14, 11:39   #10
ignis
 
Lusi's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: May 2014
Postovi: 1,437
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Lusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond reputeLusi has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Dio je iz višeg izvora, dio osobne spoznaje.
Nisi navela svoj izvor.

Moj izvor je Freud.

Što se tiče osobne spoznaje, moja osobna spoznaja je slična tvojoj - suosjećaj nam je urođen i dio je božanske iskre u svakom čovjeku, esencija samog boga.

Nu, spoznaja ne drži vodu.
Ako je suosjećaj stvar božanskog dijela nas, kako objasniti da je bog često prilično indiferentan na patnju?
Ne vidim povezanost suosjećaja i božanskog. O tome možemo pričati jedino u okvirima vjere koja je previše individualna i sve što iz nje proizlazi nije dokazivo.


Citat:
Originally Posted by madagaskar Pogledaj Post
ne slažem se s ovim.
Dijete koje je odraslo uz jednog ili oba roditelja psihopata i samo će se ponašati na sličan način, kopirat će.
Tek kasnije može naučiti suosjećati.
Isto tako djecu se odmalena može učiti i empatiji.
Naravno da su neka djeca osjetljivija od drugih i da imaju veći potencijal za razviti empatiju, taj potencijal je individualan i različit a sama empatija (suosjećanje) je nešto što se uči i razvija, u prvom redu od obitelji a kasnije kroz interakciju s društvom i okolinom te kroz vlastita iskustva
Slažem se u potpunosti.

Kada stvar rastaviš na proste faktore, izgleda da je suosjećaj naučeno ponašanje, a ne urođeno.
Lusi je offline   Reply With Quote
Hvala na korisnom postu!
imagine (23-05-14), Jesam (19-05-14)
Odgovor

Opcije Teme
Način Prikaza

Pravila Pisanja Postova
Vi ne možete otvoriti novu temu
Vi ne možete odgovarati na postove
Vi ne možete pridružiti datoteku
Vi ne možete editirati Vaše postove

BB kod je On
Smajlići su On
[IMG] kod je On
HTML kod je Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Vremenska Zona je GMT +1. Trenutno je 23:02 sati.



Iz ponude izdvajamo:











Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0