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Citat: Originally Posted by Krishna Balaram Kao sto ti imas bibliju ...

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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 12:45   #41
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Originally Posted by Krishna Balaram Pogledaj Post
Kao sto ti imas bibliju mi imamo spise najstarije na svetu koji opisuju kako Bog izgleda ,kako se vrsi njegovo sluzenje,u Bhavisya Purani je opisan i dolazak Isusa
Hramsko stovanje (i vecina danasnjeg hinduizma) se ne bazira na nekim starim rigvedskim himnama vec prvenstveno na agamama, tantrama i puranama, a to nisu niti blizu tako drevni spisi (nije da je to sada nesto posebno niti vazno, davanje vece vrijednosti necemu logikom drevnosti je isto upitna praksa).

Purane su otvoreni sistemi, zapisi puckih legendi i znanja koji cesto imaju razlicite verzije u razlicitim krajevima indije (danas i akademske recenzije koje pokusavaju izolirati univerzalne i time izvornije djelove) te se usmenim, ali cak i pisemnim prenosenjima mjenjaju i adaptiraju. Nisu prenosene nalik samithama u izoliranom formalnom obliku. BP je kompilacija svega i svacega, puno toga preuzetog iz drugih spisa, datiranje njenih razlicitih djelova ide od drevnih vremena pa do relativno nedavno. Na zalost sklonost prvo usmenom prenosenju pa potom pisanju na materijalima koji nisu dugotrajni znaci da imamo vrlo malo pisanih tragova starijeg datuma koji bi sta mogli dokazati.

Sve u svemu Isus upisan u toj purani je tamo vjerojatno dospio nakon, a ne prije pojave krscanstva.


No mislim da smo skrenuli u neke malo previse religijske vode za ovu temu.


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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 13:04   #42
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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 13:18   #43
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Bamakhepa Pogledaj Post
Hramsko stovanje (i vecina danasnjeg hinduizma) se ne bazira na nekim starim rigvedskim himnama vec prvenstveno na agamama, tantrama i puranama, a to nisu niti blizu tako drevni spisi (nije da je to sada nesto posebno niti vazno, davanje vece vrijednosti necemu logikom drevnosti je isto upitna praksa).

Purane su otvoreni sistemi, zapisi puckih legendi i znanja koji cesto imaju razlicite verzije u razlicitim krajevima indije (danas i akademske recenzije koje pokusavaju izolirati univerzalne i time izvornije djelove) te se usmenim, ali cak i pisemnim prenosenjima mjenjaju i adaptiraju. Nisu prenosene nalik samithama u izoliranom formalnom obliku. BP je kompilacija svega i svacega, puno toga preuzetog iz drugih spisa, datiranje njenih razlicitih djelova ide od drevnih vremena pa do relativno nedavno. Na zalost sklonost prvo usmenom prenosenju pa potom pisanju na materijalima koji nisu dugotrajni znaci da imamo vrlo malo pisanih tragova starijeg datuma koji bi sta mogli dokazati.

Sve u svemu Isus upisan u toj purani je tamo vjerojatno dospio nakon, a ne prije pojave krscanstva.


No mislim da smo skrenuli u neke malo previse religijske vode za ovu temu.
Purane nisu otvoreni sistemi
Vede je napisao Vyasadev a najcuvenija purana je Srimad Bhagavatam koji je on napisao na kraju kao zakljucak Veda i to posle Vedante Sutre koja se isto racuna kao zakljucak Veda.I jesu drevnio spisi i opisuju dogadjaje koji su se desili i pre miliona godina.
Spisi usu se zadrzali u izvornom sanskrit jeziku i tako se i predaju s ruke na ruku.Komentari su mozda razliciti (imaju isto znacenje ali drug pogled i objasnjenja ) ali osnovni stihovi su u originalu.
Rekao si da je Isus Vjerojatno tamo dospio posle pojave krscanstva a to vjerojatno samo pokazuje jedno da je to samo tvoje misljenje a ne i neki dokaz.
Dakle Purane nisu otvoreni sistemi ,niko ne dodaje i ne oduzima nista iz njih sto se ne moze reci za bibliju.Uz svo postovanje za bibliju ,ja je postujem takvu kakva jest.Jer se nalaze istine u njoj.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare



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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 13:30   #44
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Bhagavad-gita As It Is

BG Chapters 1 - 6
Ovo je reako Bog licno a ne nekoko sebe naziva Bogom.
BG 2.45, Translation and Purport: The Vedas deal mainly with the subject of the three modes of material nature. O Arjuna, become transcendental to these three modes. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the self.
All material activities involve actions and reactions in the three modes of material nature. They are meant for fruitive results, which cause bondage in the material world. The Vedas deal mostly with fruitive activities to gradually elevate the general public from the field of sense gratification to a position on the transcendental plane. Arjuna, as a student and friend of Lord Kṛṣṇa, is advised to raise himself to the transcendental position of Vedānta philosophy where, in the beginning, there is brahma-jijńāsā, or questions on the supreme transcendence. All the living entities who are in the material world are struggling very hard for existence. For them the Lord, after creation of the material world, gave the Vedic wisdom advising how to live and get rid of the material entanglement. When the activities for sense gratification, namely the karma-kāṇḍa chapter, are finished, then the chance for spiritual realization is offered in the form of the Upaniṣads, which are part of different Vedas, as the Bhagavad-gītā is a part of the fifth Veda, namely the Mahābhārata. The Upaniṣads mark the beginning of transcendental life.
Srimad-Bhagavatam

SB Canto 1
SB 1.4.19, Purport: Above the four Vedas, namely Ṛg, Yajur, Sāma, and Atharva, there are the Purāṇas, the Mahābhārata, Saṁhitās, etc., which are known as the fifth Veda. Śrī Vyāsadeva and his many disciples were all historical personalities, and they were very kind and sympathetic toward the fallen souls of this age of Kali. As such, the Purāṇas and Mahābhārata were made from related historical facts which explained the teaching of the four Vedas. There is no point in doubting the authority of the Purāṇas and Mahābhārata as parts and parcels of the Vedas. In the Chāndogya Upaniṣad (7.1.4), the Purāṇas and Mahābhārata, generally known as histories, are mentioned as the fifth Veda. According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, that is the way of ascertaining the respective values of the revealed scriptures.
SB 1.4.20, Translation: The four divisions of the original sources of knowledge (the Vedas) were made separately. But the historical facts and authentic stories mentioned in the Purāṇas are called the fifth Veda.
SB Canto 3
SB 3.12.39, Translation: Then he created the fifth Veda—the Purāṇas and the histories—from all his mouths, since he could see all the past, present and future.
SB 3.12.39, Purport: There are histories of particular countries and nations and of the world, but the Purāṇas are the histories of the universe, not only in one millennium, but in many kalpas. Brahmā has knowledge of those historical facts, and therefore all the purāṇas are histories. As originally composed by Brahmā, they are part of the Vedas and are called the fifth Veda.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare



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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 13:30   #45
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Originally Posted by Krishna Balaram Pogledaj Post
Purane nisu otvoreni sistemi
Vede je napisao Vyasadev a najcuvenija purana je Srimad Bhagavatam koji je on napisao na kraju kao zakljucak Veda i to posle Vedante Sutre koja se isto racuna kao zakljucak Veda.I jesu drevnio spisi i opisuju dogadjaje koji su se desili i pre miliona godina.
Spisi usu se zadrzali u izvornom sanskrit jeziku i tako se i predaju s ruke na ruku.Komentari su mozda razliciti (imaju isto znacenje ali drug pogled i objasnjenja ) ali osnovni stihovi su u originalu.
Rekao si da je Isus Vjerojatno tamo dospio posle pojave krscanstva a to vjerojatno samo pokazuje jedno da je to samo tvoje misljenje a ne i neki dokaz.
Dakle Purane nisu otvoreni sistemi ,niko ne dodaje i ne oduzima nista iz njih sto se ne moze reci za bibliju.Uz svo postovanje za bibliju ,ja je postujem takvu kakva jest.Jer se nalaze istine u njoj.
To sto govoris je vjersko uvjerenje, a ne stvarnost.

Isto kao sto se vjeruje da je Mojsije zapisao stari zavjet bez obzira sto su pisani razlicitim jezicima (odnosno razlicitim stadijima razvoja jezika), sto neke stvari reflektiraju specificne politicke odnose, starije mitove i tako dalje, odnosno kritickim promatranjem je apsoliutno jasno i nema nikakve sumnje u to da nema nekog jedinstvenog mitoloskog autora.

Kod sirokog korpusa indijskih vjerskih spisa to je dakelo, daleko ocitije.

Sama cinjenica da imas nekoliko verzija spisa, da mnogi razliciti spisi djele neke djelove, odnosno da jedni od drugih preuzimaju, da se referiraju na razlicite lokalne i vremenske materijalne kulture i politicke okvire, da opisuju specificno geografsko i biljno okruzenje, stanje na nebu itd sa cime se uz lingvistiku dosta toga moze datirati pokazuje van svake najmanje sumnje da se radi o sirokim kompliacijama nastalima kroz veca vremenska razdoblja. Samo slijepa vjera moze stavljati sve u usta jednog covjeka, svi objektivni podaci i svako kriticko promatranje to apsolutno negiraju.

U stvari su purane puno vise mjenjane od Biblije. Osim toga Biblijske spise imamo u vecim ili manjim fragmentima stare gotovo koliko i krscanstvo, dok zapise hindu spisa zbog ranije navedenih razloga iz nekih drevnih perioda bas i ne pa da se uopce moze usporedjevati. ALi cinjenica da postoje razlicite redakcije istih spisa u razlicitim krajevima dovoljno govori o njihovoj nepogresivoj tocnosti prenosenja.

Ista je stvar recimo sa neskladom opisa dogadjaja i materijalnih kultura kada uzmemo u obzir arheoloske nalaze. Neke price iz Bhagavate su arheoloski potvrdjene, pronadjena su odredjena mjesta, dokazalo se da su se desile odredjene prirodne promjene kako su opisane (promjena toka rijeke), medjutim materijalna kultura nije ona koja je opisana. Nema onih ogromnih Palaca, zidina.. a da ne govorimo o opisima dvorskog zivota, ukrasa, odjece i tome slicno. S druge strane ti opisi vrlo prcizno odgovaraju nekim kasnijim radobljima. Sasvim je jasno da su ljudi usmenom predajom prenjeli dogadjaj, ali su u nemogucnosti spoznaje kako su stvari nekada izgledale isto prebacili u poznate okvire i snagu, moc i bogatstvo vladara definirali kroz ono kako su sami to dozivljavali u nekom kasnijem vremenu dodatno naravno napuhavsi dramatike radi.


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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 13:34   #46
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Originally Posted by Krishna Balaram Pogledaj Post
Reci... buduci su i Bhaktisidhanta i Prabhupada smatrali da je praksa oblacenja u zensku odjecu i izvanjskog glumljenja u nekakvoj manjari bhava sadhani sahajiya praksa (to je mislio cak i Bhaktivinoda iako je bio za razliku od njih sklon siddha pranaliu, no ne i izvanjskom pokazivanju i glumatanju), a da Radanath (i Sacinandana) ne samo da imaju sklonost naginjanja nesto tradicionalnijim raganuga stavovima vec vole posjecivati i vjerojatno najpoznatijeg babajija u Barsani (simpa lik inace, bijah tamo jednom ;) ) koji ima takve "sahajiya" prakse (a to nije jedino neortodoksno, recimo brani javno glasno pjevanje mahamantre, smatra da ju treba koristiti samo mentalno), a Radanath je u njegovom ashramu i obitavao u vremenu van ISKCON-a... cini li ga to sahajiyom? :D


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Originally Posted by Krishna Balaram Pogledaj Post
Bhagavad-gita As It Is

BG Chapters 1 - 6
Ovo je reako Bog licno a ne nekoko sebe naziva Bogom.
BG 2.45, Translation and Purport: The Vedas deal mainly with the subject of the three modes of material nature. O Arjuna, become transcendental to these three modes. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the self.
All material activities involve actions and reactions in the three modes of material nature. They are meant for fruitive results, which cause bondage in the material world. The Vedas deal mostly with fruitive activities to gradually elevate the general public from the field of sense gratification to a position on the transcendental plane. Arjuna, as a student and friend of Lord Kṛṣṇa, is advised to raise himself to the transcendental position of Vedānta philosophy where, in the beginning, there is brahma-jijńāsā, or questions on the supreme transcendence. All the living entities who are in the material world are struggling very hard for existence. For them the Lord, after creation of the material world, gave the Vedic wisdom advising how to live and get rid of the material entanglement. When the activities for sense gratification, namely the karma-kāṇḍa chapter, are finished, then the chance for spiritual realization is offered in the form of the Upaniṣads, which are part of different Vedas, as the Bhagavad-gītā is a part of the fifth Veda, namely the Mahābhārata. The Upaniṣads mark the beginning of transcendental life.
Srimad-Bhagavatam

SB Canto 1
SB 1.4.19, Purport: Above the four Vedas, namely Ṛg, Yajur, Sāma, and Atharva, there are the Purāṇas, the Mahābhārata, Saṁhitās, etc., which are known as the fifth Veda. Śrī Vyāsadeva and his many disciples were all historical personalities, and they were very kind and sympathetic toward the fallen souls of this age of Kali. As such, the Purāṇas and Mahābhārata were made from related historical facts which explained the teaching of the four Vedas. There is no point in doubting the authority of the Purāṇas and Mahābhārata as parts and parcels of the Vedas. In the Chāndogya Upaniṣad (7.1.4), the Purāṇas and Mahābhārata, generally known as histories, are mentioned as the fifth Veda. According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, that is the way of ascertaining the respective values of the revealed scriptures.
SB 1.4.20, Translation: The four divisions of the original sources of knowledge (the Vedas) were made separately. But the historical facts and authentic stories mentioned in the Purāṇas are called the fifth Veda.
SB Canto 3
SB 3.12.39, Translation: Then he created the fifth Veda—the Purāṇas and the histories—from all his mouths, since he could see all the past, present and future.
SB 3.12.39, Purport: There are histories of particular countries and nations and of the world, but the Purāṇas are the histories of the universe, not only in one millennium, but in many kalpas. Brahmā has knowledge of those historical facts, and therefore all the purāṇas are histories. As originally composed by Brahmā, they are part of the Vedas and are called the fifth Veda.
Ne kaze to Bog nego jedan spis za sebe tvrdi da je to Bog rekao, kao i mnogi drugi spisi na ovom svijetu.

A naravno da svaka sekta sebi pridaje takve vrijednosti. Pa ce se i unutar hinduizma kod svake od milijun podsekti naci takvi tekstovi gdje Bog upravo njihove kasnije tekstove potvrdjuje kao najuzvisenije, najkrajnije, najispravnija tumacenja isl.

Ne vidim zasto bi to uzimao ozbiljnije od recimo Kur'ana ili nekog Shaivistickog spisa kad tvrde isto, zasto bih ozbiljnije uzimao vaisnavske mitove gdje Krishna rasturi Shivu, a ne shivaisticke gdje je obratno ili krscnske gdje su sve to paganski demonni...

Nitko od svih nas nema nikakvog argumenta osim toga da vjerujemo u nesto sto je netko istumacio na osnovu necega sto je netko negdje napisao na osnovu opet necega... kao u apsolutno i nepogresivu istinu.


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i može se lječit mantrama ? govori se okolo da je gaytri mantra dobra ,,za čišćenje tijela i duše,što vi znate o tome?
mislim da mi rođeni u ovom dijelu svijta gdje nam je kršćanstvo najbliže, svjesno i podsvjesno ono nam je utkano u nas i ne možemo bit objektivni u vezi drugih i drugačijih isto kao i što neki hindusi ili muslimani ne mogu u potpunosti biti objektivni o nekom drugom zbog istih razloga,,ne samo to ne možeš bit objekltivan ni tu nekom preko puta ili čak samome sebi,
Covjek moze biti objektivan samo onda kad je slobodan od iliuzije i ega.A dotad ce biyti podele na hriscane ,muslimane ,hinduse sve u zavisnosti koliko se ko identificira sa svojim tijelom ,mestom u kojem je tewlp stvoreno,porodicom,nacijom u kojoj telo pri[pada a sve to menema veze sa dusom .Dusa nije ni kriscanin ni musliman ni hindus .Ona je deo Boga i jednaka u svih
Sve dok gledamo stvari sa telesne razine necemo videti istinu
DA dusa se leci mantrama ,molitvama bilo koje vere(ustvari zavisi sta trazis tim molitvama -Materijalnu blagodet ili ljubav prema Bogu) pa i gayatri mantrom koja je veoma jaka ali oni koji matraju te mantre moraju sledoiti jako stroge principe jer postoje vece reakcije za odstupanje od tih principa.
Zato je najbezbednije od Indijskih mantri Hare Krishna maha mantra.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare



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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 17:42   #49
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Kao ljudi možemo izmišljati i filozofirati do beskraja o svemu.. i Istini se nećemo približiti..
Poput četiri sljepca koja se sretoše sa slonom prvi put.. jedan ga primi za surlu pa reče da je kao zmija.. drugi ga primi za uho pa reče da je kao šator.. treći ga primi za nogu pa reče da je kao stablo.. a četvrti dohvati rep i reče da je slon kao uže.. ta svađa traje još dan danas.. pogledajte bilo koji forum.. bilo koji blog.. tv kanal.. slon je ovakav slon je onakav.. ja nisam tu sa vama da se prepirem.. jer..

SREĆOM naš Bog je MILOSTIV Bog.. rekao nam je točno kakav je slon da oni koji Boga ljube i vjeruju mu prekinu sa beskorisnim prepirkama, a u svojoj milosti dao nam je i kako iscijeliti svoje oči da nakon što smo Bogu iskazali vjernost i ljubav ono što nam je rečeno i sami potvrdimo.. svojim vlastitim iscijeljenim očima..

Ima li veće milosti?

dakle konačna Istina je jednostavna i nepromjenjiva Bogu Hvala.. jer nam ju je sam Bog dao, a Bog ju i potvrđuje svojoj istinskoj djeci putem Duha Svetoga.

Dakle prihvaćanje svoje smrtnosti/grešne prirode.. pokajanje, prihvaćanje Isusa Krista iz Nazareta kao Sina Božjeg i svojeg Spasitelja, te život po Riječi Božjoj koji je neminovna posljedica svakoga tko napusti meso i zaživi u Duhu.

Čin milosti Božje onima koji ga upoznaju kroz Riječ Božju je obilje Duha Svetoga.. darova Duha Svetoga.. radi kojih dijete Božje zna Istinu, vidi Istinu i pronalazi Život.. u Kristu Spasitelju pronalazi Mir koji nije od ovoga svijeta.. Kucao sam i zbilja.. Bog mi reče Istinu.

http://biblehub.com/cro/john/14.htm


Što se podrijetla Indije tiče..
http://www.soundchristian.com/man/


Božja Riječ je jasna.. svatko tko Boga iskreno ljubi.. tko iskreno traga za Istinom i tko radi veće ljubavi prema Bogu nego prema ovome svijetu ima uši da je čuje.. servirana mu je na pladnju.. to što ljudi žele utaženje žeđi prije negoli piju samo govori u kakvom stanju bunila nas dugotrajna dehidracija ostavlja.. pakao je odsustvo Boga..

Vode Života..
Prvo piješ.. pa je žeđ utažena



Drugu im prispodobu iznese: Kraljevstvo je nebesko kao kad čovjek posije dobro sjeme na svojoj njivi. Dok su njegovi ljudi spavali, dođe njegov neprijatelj, posije posred žita kukolj i ode. Kad usjev uzraste i isklasa, tada se pokaza i kukolj. Sluge pristupe domaćinu pa mu reknu: 'Gospodaru, nisi li ti dobro sjeme posijao na svojoj njivi? Odakle onda kukolj?' On im odgovori: 'Neprijatelj čovjek to učini.' Nato mu sluge kažu: 'Hoćeš li, dakle, da odemo pa da ga pokupimo?' A on reče: 'Ne! Da ne biste sabirući kukolj iščupali zajedno s njim i pšenicu. Pustite nek oboje raste do žetve. U vrijeme žetve reći ću žeteocima: Pokupite najprije kukolj i svežite ga u snopove da se spali, a žito skupite u moju žitnicu.'
Evanđelje po Mateju 13:24-30


Tada otpusti mnoštvo i uđe u kuću. Pristupe mu učenici govoreći: Razjasni nam prispodobu o kukolju na njivi. On odgovori: Sijač dobroga sjemena jest Sin Čovječji. Njiva je svijet. Dobro sjeme sinovi su Kraljevstva, a kukolj sinovi Zloga. Neprijatelj koji ga posija jest đavao. Žetva je svršetak svijeta, a žeteoci anđeli. Kao što se kukolj sabire i ognjem sažiže, tako će biti na svršetku svijeta. Sin će Čovječji poslati svoje anđele da pokupe iz njegova kraljevstva sve zavodnike i bezakonike i bace ih u peć ognjenu, gdje će biti plač i škrgut zubi. Tada će pravednici zasjati poput sunca u kraljevstvu Oca svojega. Tko ima uši, neka čuje!
Evanđelje po Mateju 13:36-43


Uistinu, Bog je tako ljubio svijet te je dao svoga Sina Jedinorođenca da nijedan koji u njega vjeruje ne propadne, nego da ima život vječni.
Ivan 3:16



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Nepročitano 01-02-14, 17:47   #50
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Sin Čovječji
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Uistinu, Bog je tako ljubio svijet te je dao svoga Sina Jedinorođenca da nijedan koji u njega vjeruje ne propadne, nego da ima život vječni.
Ivan 3:16



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