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Krvno srodstvo

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Listajuci i istrazujuci razna podrucja nametnulo mi se pitanje svih pitanja; ...

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Nepročitano 07-08-10, 00:55   #1
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Zadani Krvno srodstvo

Listajuci i istrazujuci razna podrucja nametnulo mi se pitanje svih pitanja;
Dali je i koliko stetno za svaki sljedeci narastaj genetsko mijesanje sa uvijek razlicitim medju nama?

Zelim napomenuti da sam i sam standardnih pogleda po ovom pitanju i nemate potrebe da me napadate jer u tom pogledu nisam nista drugaciji od vas samih.

Da bi precizirao moju misao pokusat cu pojasniti neka nacela kao sto su nacela Bibliski nefila, ili navodnih "bogova" koji su stolovali na nasem planetu i koji po svim percepcijama stoluju i danas.
Naime oni su se uvijek razmnozavali u najblizim krugovima krvne loze od brat-sestra, brat-polusestra i najvise do treceg nivo krvne loze.

Takvo nacelo i danas se zadrzalo u pojedinim krugovima narocito u kraljevskim lozama i Jevrejskim krugovima.

Isto tako naucno je dokazano da se zivotinje uvijek pare sa svojim direktnim srodnicima ako za to imaju izbora prije nego sa onim drugma sto nam sugerise neki prirodniji ciklus od onoga kojemu smo sami nauceni.

Namece se pitanje dali je a po svemu sudeci da jeste stetno i kolika je ta steta ako se nasljednji geni toliko izukrstaju u odnosu na prvobitne kao sto je slucaj u nasoj stndardnoj civilizaciji?

Kolike i kakve su posljedice po genetiku i njene nosioce ta visegodisnja ukrstanja i kuda vodi takav proces?

Licno sam misljenja da je ovaj proces sa negativnim i jako stetnim implikacijama u nasim zivotima i da on moze voditi samo jos vecem padu i unazadjavanju vrste kojoj i sam pripadam.

Volio bi ako ima neko sa strucnog aspekta a narocito iz podrucja genetike da razmotri i pokusa da da strucno misljenje u naznaceom pogledu.
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ram (07-08-10)

Nepročitano 07-08-10, 17:05   #2
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Citat:
Originally Posted by maxy Pogledaj Post
Namece se pitanje dali je a po svemu sudeci da jeste stetno i kolika je ta steta ako se nasljednji geni toliko izukrstaju u odnosu na prvobitne kao sto je slucaj u nasoj stndardnoj civilizaciji?

Kolike i kakve su posljedice po genetiku i njene nosioce ta visegodisnja ukrstanja i kuda vodi takav proces?

Licno sam misljenja da je ovaj proces sa negativnim i jako stetnim implikacijama u nasim zivotima i da on moze voditi samo jos vecem padu i unazadjavanju vrste kojoj i sam pripadam.
Suprotno od toga.

"Cousin marriage has genetic aspects that do not arise in the case of other marriage-related political and social issues like interracial marriage. This is because married couples possessing higher than normal consanguinity have, on average, an increased chance of sharing genes for recessive traits. Consanguinity means the amount of shared (identical) DNA, the genetic material. The percentage of consanguinity between any two individuals decreases fourfold as the most recent common ancestor recedes one generation. To cite some examples, first cousins have four times the consanguinity of second cousins, while first cousins once removed have half that of first cousins. Rare double first cousins have twice that of first cousins and are as related as half-siblings."

Više o tome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

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Nepročitano 07-08-10, 17:11   #3
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Exogamy


Biological exogamy

In biology, exogamy more generally refers to the mating of individuals who are relatively less related genetically: that is, outbreeding as opposed to inbreeding. This benefits the offspring by avoiding the chance of the offspring inheriting two copies of a defective gene, and also by increasing the genetic diversity of the offspring, improving the chances that more of the offspring will have the required adaptations to survive.

Exogamy in humans


There may be a drive in humans as in many non-human animals to engage in exogamy (outbreeding) because procreating with individuals who are more closely related means any children will be more likely to suffer from genetic defects caused by inbreeding.[1] The genetic principles involved apply to all species, not just humans. Individuals who breed with more exotic partners and thereby avoid incestuous relationships tend to have healthier offspring due to the benefits of outbreeding. There are many conditions that are more likely where inbreeding takes place,[2] one example being cystic fibrosis when a couple of primarily European genetics have children, another being sickle-cell anemia when a couple of primarily African genetics have children. Therefore, the drive to reproduce with individuals genetically different from oneself[citation needed] may derive from an innate drive to seek the healthiest combination of DNA possible for one's offspring by outbreeding. However, that offspring may also imply in losing specific geographic adaptations.


Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogamy

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Nepročitano 07-08-10, 17:13   #4
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Inbreeding

Inbreeding is the reproduction from the mating of two genetically related parents, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits.

Results

Inbreeding may result in a far higher phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive genes within a population than would normally be expected.[1] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including:
Natural selection works to remove individuals who acquire the above types of traits from the gene pool. Therefore, many more individuals in the first generation of inbreeding will never live to reproduce. Over time, with isolation such as a population bottleneck caused by purposeful (assortative) breeding or natural environmental stresses, the deleterious inherited traits are culled.
The cheetah once was reduced by disease, habitat restriction, overhunting of prey, competition from other predators (primarily lions, competition from human land use, etc.) to a very small number of individuals.[2][3] All cheetahs now come from this very small gene pool. Should a virus appear that none of the cheetahs have resistance to, extinction is always a possibility. Currently, the threatening virus is feline infectious peritonitis, which has a disease rate in domestic cats from 1%-5%; in the cheetah population it is ranging between 50% to 60%. The cheetah is also known, in spite of its small gene pool, for few genetic illnesses.
Island species are often very inbred, as their isolation from the larger group on a mainland allows for natural selection to work upon their population. This type of isolation may result in the formation of race or even speciation, as the inbreeding first removes many deleterious genes, and allows expression of genes that allow a population to adapt to an ecosystem. As the adaptation becomes more pronounced the new species or race radiates from its entrance into the new space, or dies out if it cannot adapt and, most importantly, reproduce.[4]
The reduced genetic diversity that results from inbreeding may mean a species may not be able to adapt to changes in environmental conditions. Each individual will have similar immune systems, as immune systems are genetically based. Where a species becomes endangered, the population may fall below a minimum whereby the forced interbreeding between the remaining animals will result in extinction.
In the South American sea lion, there was concern that recent population crashes would reduce genetic diversity. Historical analysis indicated that a population expansion from just two matrilineal lines were responsible for most individuals within the population. Even so, the diversity within the lines allowed for great variation in the gene pool that may inoculate the South American sea lion from extinction.[5]
Natural breedings include inbreeding by necessity, and most animals only migrate when necessary. In many cases, the closest living mate is a mother, sister, grandmother, father, grandfather... In all cases the environment presents stresses to select or remove those individuals who cannot survive because of illness from the population.
In lions, prides are often followed by related males in bachelor groups. When the dominant male is killed or driven off by one of these bachelors, a father may be replaced with his son. There is no mechanism for preventing inbreeding or to ensure outcrossing. In the prides, most lionesses are related to one another. If there is more than one dominant male, the group of alpha males are usually related. Two lines then are being "line bred". Also, in some populations such as the Crater lions, it is known that a population bottleneck has occurred. Researchers found far greater genetic heterozygosity than expected.[6] In fact, predators are known for low genetic variance, along with most of the top portion of the tropic levels of an ecosystem.[7] Additionally, the alpha males of two neighboring prides can potentially be from the same litter; one brother may come to acquire leadership over another's pride, and subsequently mate with his 'nieces' or cousins. However, killing another male's cubs, upon the takeover, allows for the new selected gene complement of the incoming alpha male to prevail over the previous male. There are genetic assays being scheduled for lions to determine their genetic diversity. The preliminary studies show results inconsistent with the outcrossing paradigm based on individual environments of the studied groups.[6]
There was an assumption that wild populations do not inbreed; this is not what is observed in some cases in the wild. However, in species such as horses, animals in wild or feral conditions often drive off the young of both genders, thought to be a mechanism by which the species instinctively avoids some of the genetic consequences of inbreeding.[8]


Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding

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Nepročitano 07-08-10, 17:28   #5
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Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Spring Pogledaj Post
Suprotno od toga.

Cousin marriage has genetic aspects that do not arise in the case of other marriage-related political and social issues like interracial marriage. This is because married couples possessing higher than normal consanguinity have, on average, an increased chance of sharing genes for recessive traits. Consanguinity means the amount of shared (identical) DNA, the genetic material. The percentage of consanguinity between any two individuals decreases fourfold as the most recent common ancestor recedes one generation. To cite some examples, first cousins have four times the consanguinity of second cousins, while first cousins once removed have half that of first cousins. Rare double first cousins have twice that of first cousins and are as related as half-siblings.

Više o tome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage
Ovo sa wikipedije mi je poznato samo sto je taj izvor nevalidan.

Ipak ostajem uvjeren da u ovom grmu lezi neka vrsta zvijeri koju bi vrijedilo detaljno istraziti.

Kao prvo taj obicaj je vlada kod bogova kao i nama poznatih loza iz vladajuceg estabilismanta kao i kod Jevreja a za koje se vjeruje da su u vrhu vladajuce elite.
Postavlja se pitanje zasto je to kod obicnog svijeta iskorijenjeno a zadrzano kod onih koji bi na neki nacin trebali da budu model za ostali svijet.
Analizirajuci sve inplikacije koje proizilaze iz tog odnosa ostaje dojam pozitivnih implikacija iz vise aspekata dok mi od negativnih imlikacija ostaje jedino mogucnost a dovoljno ne dokazane sto se navodi u ovom tekstu.


P.S.
Ali pravni dokumenti iskopani u Mariu i Nuziu pojasnili su da muškarac
može oženiti polusestru. Štoviše, kada bi se uzeli u obzir svi sinovi svih žena, sin
te žene - budući pedeset posto "čistokrvnog sjemena", za razliku od sinova žena
koje nisu u srodstvu - bio je zakoniti nasljednik, bio on prvorođeni ili ne.
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Nepročitano 07-08-10, 18:19   #6
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Stvarno ne znam, maxy. Na žalost (li na sreću?) nisam genetičar, pa ne mogu to istražiti, da bi nešto dokazala.

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alison (07-08-10), maxy (07-08-10)
Nepročitano 10-08-10, 19:45   #7
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Zadani

Uporno mi se pokazuje ova tema kao neprocitana, bez obzira koliko puta je otvorila...
Pa cu da napisem komentar....

Jedan moj prijatelj je imao dosta slucajeva incesta u vise generacija....
Stranac je, ne bih u detalje.
Posljedica toga su odredjeni poremecaji....
- ne posjeduje znojne zlijezde
- njegova koza ne sadrzi masnoce, stoga se ne smije kupati (vrlo, vrlo rijetko - 1 ili 2 puta godisnje)
- u slucaju veceg umora ili pojacanog stresa na raznim dijelovima tijela dolazi do pucanja koze i otvorenih rana koje teze zacjeljuju.

To su poremecaji koje ja znam i koji su, medicinski potvrdjeno, nastali usljed genetskih poremecaja radi incesta.
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Nepročitano 10-08-10, 20:09   #8
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Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Gollem Pogledaj Post
Uporno mi se pokazuje ova tema kao neprocitana, bez obzira koliko puta je otvorila...
Pa cu da napisem komentar....

Jedan moj prijatelj je imao dosta slucajeva incesta u vise generacija....
Stranac je, ne bih u detalje.
Posljedica toga su odredjeni poremecaji....
- ne posjeduje znojne zlijezde
- njegova koza ne sadrzi masnoce, stoga se ne smije kupati (vrlo, vrlo rijetko - 1 ili 2 puta godisnje)
- u slucaju veceg umora ili pojacanog stresa na raznim dijelovima tijela dolazi do pucanja koze i otvorenih rana koje teze zacjeljuju.

To su poremecaji koje ja znam i koji su, medicinski potvrdjeno, nastali usljed genetskih poremecaja radi incesta.
Da, ovo je konkretan primjer gdje se vjeruje da je posljedica toga sto bi recimo neko sistemacnije istrazivanje vrlo lako moguce potvrdilo nesto drugo u obliku nasljednog gena sa slicnim ili istim problemima.
Vjerujem da je ipak upitanju neka nasljedno genetski poremecaj uzrok prije nego inces.
Isto tako moguce je da je to neka greska samo njegovog bioloskog sistema.

To bar potvrdjuju slucajevi gdje je to konstantna praksa gdje nebih iskljucio mogucnost da su i u tim slucajevima mozda cesci slucajevi nekih anomalija vezanih za ovo pitanje ali se zbog njihovog statuta vjesto prikrivaju.

Cinjenica je da je ovo ljudima preneseno od onih sto ih danas nazivamo bogovima, znaci da je to bila njihova praksa a oni su raspolagali vrhovnim znanjem pa tako i iz ove oblasti.
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Nepročitano 10-08-10, 21:31   #9
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Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by maxy Pogledaj Post
Da, ovo je konkretan primjer gdje se vjeruje da je posljedica toga sto bi recimo neko sistemacnije istrazivanje vrlo lako moguce potvrdilo nesto drugo u obliku nasljednog gena sa slicnim ili istim problemima.
Vjerujem da je ipak upitanju neka nasljedno genetski poremecaj uzrok prije nego inces.
Isto tako moguce je da je to neka greska samo njegovog bioloskog sistema.

To bar potvrdjuju slucajevi gdje je to konstantna praksa gdje nebih iskljucio mogucnost da su i u tim slucajevima mozda cesci slucajevi nekih anomalija vezanih za ovo pitanje ali se zbog njihovog statuta vjesto prikrivaju.

Cinjenica je da je ovo ljudima preneseno od onih sto ih danas nazivamo bogovima, znaci da je to bila njihova praksa a oni su raspolagali vrhovnim znanjem pa tako i iz ove oblasti.
Cijeli je taj kraj poznat po incestima.
Mala mjesta, izolovana, sa malim brojem stanovnika.
Moram napomenuti, radi se o Skandinavskoj zemlji.
Od raznih psihickih bolesti, preko tjelesnih anomalija, do veoma cudnih bolesti...

Moje je misljenje da u incestu ne moze biti i nema nista pozitivnoga.
Naravno, to je samo moje misljenje.

Toliko od mene
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angela (10-08-10), Tina (10-08-10)
Nepročitano 10-08-10, 22:19   #10
ona koja jest
 
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Zadani

A i narodna mudrost, potvrđena u praksi (i kod nas ima takvih izoliranih krajeva gdje nema puno "mješanja krvi") takođe se užasava od brakova bliskih krvnih srodnika. A oni nisu ni imali prilike biti indoktrinirani.

Toliko.

Maxy, ne moraš vjerovati ni meni, ni genetičarima, ni narodnoj mudrosti....samo, što nam je to uopće bitno? Osim ako ne razmišljamo o eventualnoj udaji/ženidbi za nekog svog...rođaka...rodicu...




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