Alternativa Forum

Vitamin B12

Ovo je diskusija na temu Vitamin B12 u podforumu Vegetarijanstvo
Citat: Originally Posted by Jesam Maca nije hrana nego suplement Citat: ...

Natrag   Alternativa Forum > Prehrana i zdravlje > Vegetarijanstvo

Alternativa Forum


Vegetarijanstvo Vegetarijanskom prehranom do zdravlja

Odgovor
LinkBack Opcije Teme Način Prikaza
Nepročitano 24-12-14, 22:07   #21
Guru
 
sinkezg's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 2,414
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Maca nije hrana nego suplement
Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Nisam napisala da nije hrana, čitaj bolje. .
I kako sad pristojno komunicirati
sinkezg je offline   Reply With Quote

Nepročitano 24-12-14, 22:09   #22
aspirant
 
frust's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2012
Postovi: 738
frust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond repute
frust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond reputefrust has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
OK - dakle kaže ovako:

All vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria and all animals in their natural environment get enough B12. Most species consume B12 in their diet, but ruminants such as cattle and sheep have extra stomachs which allow bacteria to produce B12 internally provided the animals are consuming enough cobalt. Our great ape relatives consume up to 5% animal products with even the gorilla consuming up to 1% as insect contamination of their natural diet of leaves and fruit.

Iz čega slijedi da ga nema u biljkama nego ga proizvode bakterije, a to ipak nije isto.
I koji god bio razlog - vraćamo se na činjenicu da ga danas ne možemo dobiti iz biljaka, nego samo iz mesa, što znači da ga treba suplementirati, što je i poanta na koju sam htjela ukazati.
Biljke ga dobiju na svojoj povrsini, nakon sto padnu na zemlju ili je dodiruju, ali ako se prskaju i peru, mora se suplementirati ili lizati zemlju kao mravojed.
frust je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 24-12-14, 22:13   #23
Guru
 
sinkezg's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 2,414
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by frust Pogledaj Post
Vitamin B12 dobija se iz bakterije koja se pre ere prskanja i pranja voca i povrca, u vise nego dovoljnoj kolicini dobijala iz biljaka. Zivotinje koje ljudi jedu, same jedu prljavu hranu, i tako dolaze do B12. Tako da se ne moze tvrditi da se preko prirodnog veganskog nacina ishrane ne moze dobiti taj vitamin. Tablete, sprejevi i injekcije B12 se koriste samo zbog zaprasivanja i temeljnog pranja voca i povrca, sto je posledica moderne civilizacije koja ga eliminise iz biljaka.
da, ali u praksi možeš zaboraviti na taj način dobivanja B12 pa smatram da je higijenskije uzeti tabletu nego zmazanu hranu.

(Postovi u kojima nema neistinitih tvrdnji iz "copy paste izvora", trolanja, off i ad hominema dobiju fine i kulturne odgovore. Opetovano ponavljanje ranije opisanih postova dobiva po zasluzi.)
sinkezg je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 24-12-14, 22:27   #24
Guru
 
sinkezg's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 2,414
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post

Iz čega slijedi da ga nema u biljkama nego ga proizvode bakterije, a to ipak nije isto.
Maca (to je biljka, jelte) ga ima u sebi, vjerovala ili ne.
sinkezg je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 24-12-14, 22:40   #25
Dandapani
 
Jesam's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2011
Postovi: 13,953
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Sinke, ok - shvatila sam. Stvarno cjepidlačiš. Objasnila sam što sam mislila pod "nije hrana nego suplement", ali ti i dalje piliš piljevinu.
Ispravit ću post #2 i amen.


slobodni.net za slobodni svijet



Podijeli post!

Jesam je offline   Reply With Quote
Jesam, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
Nanette (25-12-14)
Nepročitano 24-12-14, 22:46   #26
Dandapani
 
Jesam's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2011
Postovi: 13,953
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Evo Sinke - samo za tebe. Možeš mirno otići na počinak, nepravda je ispravljena:

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
B12 se nalazi ugl. samo u proizvodima životinjskog porijekla (s iznimkom biljke mace)

B12 je jedini vitamin koji sadrži element u tragovima (kobalt) i zato je i nazvan kobalmin.
Kobalmin se proizvodi u crijevima životinja i jedini je vitamin koji ne možemo dobiti preko biljaka i Sunčeve svjetlosti. Biljke ne trebaju B12 pa ga ni ne pohranjuju.

.....


slobodni.net za slobodni svijet



Podijeli post!

Jesam je offline   Reply With Quote
Jesam, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
Nanette (25-12-14)
Nepročitano 24-12-14, 23:53   #27
Guru
 
sinkezg's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 2,414
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Kad već ispravljaš, ispravi i ovo:

B12 je jedini vitamin koji sadrži element u tragovima (kobalt) i zato je i nazvan kobalmin.


Ispravno je kobalamin.

I nije tipfeler jer nije jednom tako napisano već najmanje 3 x

cjepidlaka...
sinkezg je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 25-12-14, 00:39   #28
Guru
 
sinkezg's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 2,414
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Rizik za nedostatak B12 imaju:
-vegeterijanci i vegani
-stariji od 60 godina
-osobe koje koriste lijekove za želučanu kiselinu i gastritis
-osobe koje imaju dijabetes i koriste lijekove kao Metmorfin
-oboljeli od Chronove bolesti,celijakije,ulceroznog kolitisa i sindroma iritabilnih crijeva (IBS)
-žene koje su imale spontane pobačaje i problema sa neplodosti
-trudnice
-djeca

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
činjenica da je puno ljudi u deficitu s B12 i da ga je potrebno suplementirati.
...što nas dovodi do tableta koje, kao što možemo vidjeti, jednako mogu biti potrebne svim rizičnim skupinama pa tu vegani i vegetarijanci nisu u riskantnijoj skupini od rizičnih skupina svejeda.
sinkezg je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 25-12-14, 00:53   #29
Guru
 
sinkezg's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Oct 2009
Postovi: 2,414
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
sinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond reputesinkezg has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
OK - dakle kaže ovako:

All vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria and all animals in their natural environment get enough B12. Most species consume B12 in their diet, but ruminants such as cattle and sheep have extra stomachs which allow bacteria to produce B12 internally provided the animals are consuming enough cobalt. Our great ape relatives consume up to 5% animal products with even the gorilla consuming up to 1% as insect contamination of their natural diet of leaves and fruit.

Iz čega slijedi da ga nema u biljkama nego ga proizvode bakterije, a to ipak nije isto.
Ima ga u maca korijenu (ne na korijenu nego u korijenu), otprilike koliko i u jajima.

Ima ga u još jednoj namirnici biljnog porijekla (uzgajanoj na našem podneblju), isto u sitnim količinama ali trebalo bi dodatnih ispitivanja.

Citat:
I koji god bio razlog - vraćamo se na činjenicu da ga danas ne možemo dobiti iz biljaka, nego samo iz mesa, što znači da ga treba suplementirati, što je i poanta na koju sam htjela ukazati.
good point
sinkezg je offline   Reply With Quote
Nepročitano 25-12-14, 11:31   #30
Dandapani
 
Jesam's Avatar
 
Datum registracije: Mar 2011
Postovi: 13,953
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Jesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond reputeJesam has a reputation beyond repute
Zadani

Teži oblik nedostatka B12.

To je stanje koje se zove PERNICIOZNA ANEMIJA (pernicious anemia/B12 deficiency). Jaki neurološki i psihijatrijski simptomi (iznenadno ludilo, agresija, neuračunjivost) uvelike prethode hematološkim manifestacijama bolesti. Kao i kod većine drugih nalaza, interval je vrlo, vrlo širok, a samo rezultati iznad 300 ng/L smatraju se nisko normalnim (low normal), a samo najgornjih 15% intervala je optimalno. Ne morate imati nedostatak željeza da bolujete od perniciozne anemije! U prošlosti su tu bolest zvali MEGALOBLASTIČNO LUDILO (megaloblastic madness) zbog izrazito teških psihijatrijskih manifestacija bolesti.

B12 također utječe na proizvodnju serotonina.

Nedostatak B12 povećava razine homocisteina i rizik od srčanih bolesti, jer je homocistein toksičan za živce i vene. Nedostatak B12 često se i danas krivo dijagnosticira kao multipla skleroza, jer je B12 ključan za mijelinsku ovojnicu živaca i prijenos živčanih impulsa, te ako je dugo neliječen, uzrokuje subakutnu kombiniranu degeneraciju kralježničke moždine, a pridonosi i razvoju Parkinsonove i Alzheimerove bolesti. U SAD-u je obavezno suplementiranje svih pšeničnih/žitnih proizvoda folnom kiselinom, odnosno vitaminom B9, i to sintetskim, jer desetljećima kola fama da je važno uzimati B9 (pogotovo trudnice). Istraživanja pokazuju da se nemetabolizirani sintetski B9 (folna kiselina) taloži u organizmu i pogoršava stanje kod oboljelih, odnosno visoke razine B9 u kombinaciji s niskim razinama B12 samo maskiraju krvnu sliku. Puno je manje opasno imati niske razine i B9 i B12, nego optimalne razine B9, a niske razine B12.

Pojednostavljeno, bez vitamina B12 se umire lud i u užasnim bolovima, u kolicima ili potpuno nepokretan.

Ispravan oblik B12 jest methylcobalamin.


Izvori i više informacija ovdje:

The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Lindsay H. Allen, How common is vitamin B12 deficiency?
Tufts University, Health Sciences, Vitamin B-12 Function May Be Diminished By Excessive Folate
Victor Herbert, M.D., Potential Harmful Effects of Folate Food Fortification without Added Cobalamin
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, David Smith, Folic acid fortification: the good, the bad, and the puzzle of vitamin B-12


slobodni.net za slobodni svijet



Podijeli post!

Jesam je offline   Reply With Quote
Jesam, hvala ti na korisnom postu!
Nanette (25-12-14)
Odgovor

Opcije Teme
Način Prikaza

Pravila Pisanja Postova
Vi ne možete otvoriti novu temu
Vi ne možete odgovarati na postove
Vi ne možete pridružiti datoteku
Vi ne možete editirati Vaše postove

BB kod je On
Smajlići su On
[IMG] kod je On
HTML kod je Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Vremenska Zona je GMT +1. Trenutno je 02:53 sati.





Iz ponude izdvajamo:









Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0