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Vitamin B12

Ovo je diskusija na temu Vitamin B12 u podforumu Vegetarijanstvo
Citat: Originally Posted by sinkezg Siguran sam da jesu. Jer se ...

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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 09:14   #41
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Citat:
Originally Posted by sinkezg Pogledaj Post

Siguran sam da jesu. Jer se B12 nalazi i u ustima a te tablete se zapravo trebaju otapati pod jezikom.
Moguće da je brža apsorpcija, ali mislim da je ipak najbitnije da je suplement kvalitetan.

Citat:
Originally Posted by sinkezg Pogledaj Post
Smatram da je važnije koliko puta tjedno se uzima neki dodatak prehrani od same količine i da bi kod B12 optimum bilo 10 x mjesečno tj. svakih 3 dana.
Zbog čega upravo takva dinamika?

Ako netko ima manjak ovih vitamina, onda ih treba uzimati svakodnevno jer ih svakodenevno i troši i svakodnevno ih izlučuje iz tijela. Ne vidim logiku u preskakanju.

Kod ozbiljnih deficita, pogotovo kod ljudi koji boluju od autoimunih stanja, ponekad je potrebni uzimati ove dodatke u velikim količinama svakodnevno i do godinu dana da se stanje u organizmu normalizira.


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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 10:23   #42
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Zbog čega upravo takva dinamika?

Ako netko ima manjak ovih vitamina, onda ih treba uzimati svakodnevno jer ih svakodenevno i troši i svakodnevno ih izlučuje iz tijela. Ne vidim logiku u preskakanju.
Slažem se. Mislio sam na one koji nisu u kritičnom deficitu B12
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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 12:26   #43
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Prvo, kako znaš da oboljevaju ljudi koji ga imaju u normalnim količinama kad se te pretrage kod nas uopće ne rade, a čak i rijetko vani?

Drugo, malo mi je nevjerojatno tvrditi da rješavanjem uzroka nestaju svi problemi i simptomi i da se čovjek čudotvorno oporavi sam od sebe samo udišući zrak.

To bi značilo da čovjeku nije potrebna kvalitetna prehrana, da mu nisu potrebni makro i mikronutrijenti - samo je bitno da nije u stresu i ne doživljava konflikte? Pa kaj smo anđeli? Eterična bića? Ajmo se uozbiljiti.

Tko je taj koji ne doživljava konflikte i koji makar ponekad nije u stresu - ajd baš da ga vidim! A sasvim sigurno će se organizam lakše nositi s naporom ako je kvalitetno opskrbljen svime što mu je potrebno za homeostazu, ako se pravilno hrani i uzima dodatke za koje je utvrđeno da ih danas malo tko može dobiti dovoljno samo iz prehrane.
Ja bi bio najsretniji da ljudima vitamini riješe sve zdrastvene probleme.
Očito je da to nije tako.

A pošto smo na alternativa forumu, možemo uzeti i energetsku komponentu u obzir

Slažem se s tobom u dijelu da tijelu treba pomoći da se lakše nosi s 'vagotonijama', a naravno da tome služi i kvalitetna i balansirana prehrana bogata vitaminima.
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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 13:03   #44
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Citat:
Originally Posted by LIK Pogledaj Post
A pošto smo na alternativa forumu, možemo uzeti i energetsku komponentu u obzir
Možeš uzeti energ. komponentu ali bi nas to predaleko odvelo od teme.

Mene bi više interesiralo zašto bi vegani (ili drugi) trebali uzimati B12 u kombinaciji sa D vitaminom. Nisam nikad čačkao po tome

Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Moguće da je brža apsorpcija, ali mislim da je ipak najbitnije da je suplement kvalitetan.
Da, ali kako odrediti da je nešto najkvalitetnije?

Imamo nekoliko kriterija koji još uvijek ne govore što bi bilo najkvalitetnije, govore samo da su neki preduvjeti zadovoljeni:
- Aktivni B12
- Količina jedinica (koncentracija)

Ako nam ne trebaju prevelike količine (jer će organizam višak izbaciti), kako znati koji proizvod je najkvalitetniji?
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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 14:18   #45
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Citat:
Originally Posted by LIK Pogledaj Post
Ja bi bio najsretniji da ljudima vitamini riješe sve zdrastvene probleme.
Očito je da to nije tako.

A pošto smo na alternativa forumu, možemo uzeti i energetsku komponentu u obzir

Slažem se s tobom u dijelu da tijelu treba pomoći da se lakše nosi s 'vagotonijama', a naravno da tome služi i kvalitetna i balansirana prehrana bogata vitaminima.
Uzimam ja u obzir energetsku komponentu - eto, sve oprobano na vlastitoj koži. Em sam reikistica, još mi i sestra radila terapije koje su me fakat podigle i održale neko vrijeme ali i nakon svega toga, nalaz je bio katastrofa - prema čemu je samo jedan zaključak: da te nikakva energija ne može dovoljno zakrpati niti nadoknaditi manjak vitalnih nutrijenata.

Možda vitamini ne mogu riješiti sve probleme ali jako puno toga mogu. U udruzi sam koja ima jako puno članova sa hiptireozom i adrenalnim umorom i bilježimo sva iskustva, eksperimentiramo jer naravno liječnici nemaju blagog pojma ni o čemu - ali rezultati su više nego očiti, što potvrđuju i nalazi, dakle nije subjektivno.


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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 14:24   #46
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Citat:
Originally Posted by sinkezg Pogledaj Post

Da, ali kako odrediti da je nešto najkvalitetnije?

Imamo nekoliko kriterija koji još uvijek ne govore što bi bilo najkvalitetnije, govore samo da su neki preduvjeti zadovoljeni:
- Aktivni B12
- Količina jedinica (koncentracija)

Ako nam ne trebaju prevelike količine (jer će organizam višak izbaciti), kako znati koji proizvod je najkvalitetniji?
Što se tiče B12 - najdostupniji je u obliku methylcobalamina iako su dobri još dva oblika: hydroxycobalamin i adenosylcobalamin ali je ponuda ta dva oblika vrlo slaba ili dolaze u kombinaciji sa lošim oblicima drugih vitamina. Preporuka je da se najčešći oblik, cijanokobalamin zaobilazi u širokom luku.

Eh sad, kažem to su sve iskustva koja ljudi sakupljaju sa raznih strana i različitih izvora, i znanstvenih i neznanstvenih, i onda potvrđuju kroz svoje iskustvo - ako su rezultati dobri, ako nema nuspojava, ako nalazi pokazuju brz oporavak i zadržavanje neke homeostaze itd.

Da li će se spoznaja promijeniti kroz par godina uistinu ne znam, ali sve se mijenja - samo je bitno da ide na bolje. Za sada je ovo najbolje što znamo.


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Nepročitano 26-12-14, 14:32   #47
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Citat:
Originally Posted by sinkezg Pogledaj Post
Mene bi više interesiralo zašto bi vegani (ili drugi) trebali uzimati B12 u kombinaciji sa D vitaminom. Nisam nikad čačkao po tome
Mislim da svatko mirne savjesti može suplementirati s D vitaminom jer ga itekako svi imamo u debelom manjku. Vegani još i više s obzirom da su neki od najboljih izvora masna riba i mlječni proizvodi ali i žitarice no tu dolazimo do drugog problema vezanog uz gluten.

Jako puno ljudi ima problema s propusnim crijevima a da toga i nije svjesna, samim time što se prehrana većine ljudi sastoji od proizvoda od pšenice i ostalih "loših" žitarica. Pšenica, u soju kakvom se danas uzgaja ima 55% glutena, za razliku od izvornog soja koji je imao oko 4,5% glutena. Ovakva prehrana tijekom više godina razara crijeva čak i zdravim ljudima. Propusna crijeva slabije apsorbiraju potrebne nutrijente i dalje se sve urušava ko domino.

Kada bismo htjeli iz sunca dobiti dovoljno D vitamina morali bismo svakodnevno cijelo tijelo (golo- jer se D stvara preku kože) izlagati suncu 20 minuta i ne koristiti nikakve zaštitne faktore. Tko to može?

D vitamin (ali i masnoće općenito) regulira hormone. U grupi se pokazalo da su neki čak uspjeli uz kvalitetnu suplementaciju s B i D vitaminima, posložiti organizam i riješiti problem hipotireoze, čak je prema nekim teorijama hipotireoza uzrokovana dugotrajnim manjkom D vitamina.


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Nepročitano 27-12-14, 09:38   #48
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Jesam Pogledaj Post
Pšenica, u soju kakvom se danas uzgaja ima 55% glutena, za razliku od izvornog soja koji je imao oko 4,5% glutena. Ovakva prehrana tijekom više godina razara crijeva čak i zdravim ljudima. Propusna crijeva slabije apsorbiraju potrebne nutrijente i dalje se sve urušava ko domino.
Mislim da nije problem u količini glutena već što konzumiramo pšenicu koja nije cjelovita tj. prerađena je i u tom obliku gluten postaje problem.

I ako me sjećanje ne vara (a moguće da me vara, davno sam to proučavao), i svejedi mogu imati jednake probleme sa B!2, upravo zbog naslaga na stijenkama crijeva i kiseloj sredini u crijevima i ustima.
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Nepročitano 27-12-14, 20:41   #49
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Našla sam na ovaj tekst koji kaže da vitamin b12 ima i u kiselom kupusu:Obradovala sam se jer volim kiseli kupus

http://www.dnevno.hr/zdravlje/103511...lavobolju.html
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Nepročitano 28-12-14, 09:46   #50
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Citat:
Originally Posted by Cvjet Pogledaj Post
Našla sam na ovaj tekst koji kaže da vitamin b12 ima i u kiselom kupusu:Obradovala sam se jer volim kiseli kupus

http://www.dnevno.hr/zdravlje/103511...lavobolju.html
Zanimljivo, hvala Cvjet. Da, to je zbog fermentacije i probiotičkih bakterija a ne samog kupusa.


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